Oddbean

I kinda hate everything about Mormonism. They are not Christian, IMO. They are a cult. (To be fair, The Church was called a cult at its beginning, too, but the difference, IMO, is that Mormonism is based on a "further revelation" exactly like Islam, and both of those lead to bad things when followed, so, I do as proscribed and judge them by their fruit.)

yeah, i'm inclined to agree from my experience, they are probably pretty much Scientology-adjacent, in fact but the point is more about the fact that several of their "revelations" assert the material nature of the angelic host... and they have some interesting points about synthetic fibres and such also, which are all pretty much being shown to be toxic waste we should not be wearing but yes, pretty much a cult, i guess my point is more towards a more clear question of "which Christian churches are most friendly to the understanding of the angels being physical beings i have not intensively studied doctrine much outside of catholic and seventh day adventist (i was raised in the latter, and it also gets labeled cult as well, for much the same reasons as mormon, and JW and they also appear around the same time, at the end of the gold rush)

interesting, just reading about it one of the points in favor of such systems as i understand it is that it is permissible and mentioned the idea of praying to saints and angels, even opening up conversations with the fallen ones though obviously one is going to be highly skeptical about anything they say, and further, that the identity of those that answer may not be as intended probably in general it's best to stick to the one, and disincarnate God as regards to prayer, whoever actually answers, is for a separate exercise. it reminds me a lot, one of the most notable periods of my life in recent years related to adopting the constant prayer that I was engaging in, and because i was on the road and homeless and penniless i was alone a lot so it was easy to adopt there is some kind of phobia about speaking out loud to oneself, hypothetical listener or not, i'm interested to hear opinions about how to break through that without being in such extreme conditions as i found myself at the times i have practiced it a lot

hmm... if I ever to hear "another voice" that is not the one I know all my life, which tone or accent it would have? I tried imagine any, I couldn't... to begin with, to "imagine it" it already grants that is self made, that the voice is still there alone; if ever having to hear another voice there could be no way obliged necessity to be in this language probably, in this frequency, etc... The problematic as far as i know is there could not be a way to verify with flesh and bones about cases in other people where they claim they indeed can...

yeah, it's quite an interesting thing... the voice... you kinda have to persist with it and expect a response and eventually sometimes you get something that you don't expect, and that surprise is the signal that it has possible external origin anyone who sells you the idea that they have mastered it should be treated with suspicion, i think my personal theory on it is that you only listen to the voice of God first hand, which means you have to actually try to hear it the Bible also makes reference to this in places as the "still small voice" and this ties together with the instruction to pray out loud, and where this is advised also in some places it talks about the importance of privacy, and hinting at the idea that public praying as theatre is not a good thing, per se

knocked me off guard the use of praying as voice... of the voice 😅 then yes ideally i could sign the idea that praying not necessarily hast to be alike the mendincants did only... but there i think neither at concert halls with acrobatics if not is clearly labeled as circus

yeah, it can't really be stated without undue emphasis that you have to engade your lungs and vocal chords, the instructions you can find in the bible are quite clear, and you can probably find similar stuff in other places as well, it was just Phillipians 4:6-7 that i became aware of it

Interesting, I too was raised SDA. Don't meet too many people out and about with this background. As an adult it has been interesting to see the history of America and some of cultural forces that were in play when these "newer" Christian churches (SDA, Mormon, JW, etc) were founded. I think that's why many of them share similar forms and doctrines. There are definitely some good cultural parts of these churches that I really admire. But, some parts are just too 'out there' or elitist for me to deal with.