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 It's not an authoritarian talking point, the fact is that we can pick a platform in part based on how that platform deals with abhorrent content.

Historically when platforms go with the "zero censorship" approach, abhorrent content starts showing up and since it never gets removed people just remove themselves from the platform, skewing the ratio towards abhorrent content. Before too long it's just mostly just the people who post abhorrent content.

And bear in mind, most normal people don't get censored or banned on traditional social media platforms, we can discuss pretty much everything we want to in the terms we want to without getting banned. So even the concept of a censorship resistant platform is primarily marketed towards people who are abhorrent and lack self-restraint. 
j | 1 years ago (raw) | root | parent | reply | flag +1
 ☝this is your brain on propaganda. I will not engage.

If you follow this poor soul and are gwnuinely curious: consider my second example in what he's replying to: are private homes where you can talk about anything without moderation a "platform"?  Nostr is like that, if you don't like what someone is saying, you can leave their relays and go find your own, but you can't stop them from saying it. 
 You have engaged. You haven't engaged meaningfully since you've just insulted me for holding an opinion you disagree with, but it's engagement nonetheless.

Your analogy is flawed in that you are suggesting private homes in general are within the platform. The most likely outcome is after seeing abhorrent content not be dealt with, normal people will leave the entire ecosystem, not just one "home" or relay. If that's what you're aiming for by all means continue to dismiss legitimate concerns with personal attacks. 
 The great thing about Nostr is that you can mute content you don't like. The great thing about Nostr is that the control of the media is truly in the hands of the user. We don't moderate for people because we trust they can make decisions on their own. We don't need baby-sitters to tell us what is ok and what is not ok to see. We make that decision.  
 You can do that on any platform but most normal people will only put up with having to keep blocking abhorrent content before they move on. Ans since normal people don't get censored on traditional social media platforms they gain very little from coming to a decentralized platform.

Also when I've tried out the muting it appears you still see the notes just it says "this has been muted", so when there are people being bombarded with abhorrent content they'll just be bombarded with little hidden note notifications.

Sure, I accept your premise that you believe people can make their own decisions. But what if the decision most people make is to leave the platform and go elsewhere, so it just ends up with a few die hards like yourself then a large pile of abhorrent crazies? Surely at that point there will be little reason to stick around.

The problem is that your ideal is based on the idea that people will make the choices for themselves but not ever choose "leave the platform" as an option, and every zero-censorship platform to date has devolved into just the worst elements because everyone else ultimately leaves. 
 I went to a dinner party once and it turned into a violent fight. So I left their house.  Haven't been inside a building ever since! 🤣 
 Yep and the answer Is obvious: if PsychoVagabondX doesn’t like free speech platforms (or even homes where free speech is practiced) then he or she shouldn’t go there. But that’s not good enough bcz they don’t want us to have it. 
 I haven't said you can't have it, do whatever you want. Just ask yourself if you'll really be happy if this platform devolves into the same abhorrent mess all of the other zero-censorship platforms turned into?

Because I guarantee the result will be the same. First off people will see the content and mute it, then it'll keep showing up and they'll leave. Then it'll be reported widely and app stores will drop the apps as they can't be moderated. Then hosting providers will push back on people hosting the front ends and nodes.

And at each step trying to appeal to a wider audience will get hard and harder and harder until only the most abhorrent people and the die-hard supporters remain. 
 I just pictured you telling Jesus not to preach or to be around the harlots.

The bottom line is that you are dead set against a free speech platform and quite concerned or you wouldn’t be spitting talkin’ points & working so hard to convince errebody that it will never work.  

Why tf are you here if not for freedom? Why not go find another platform that’s more to your totalitarian liking? Why bother to speak out so hard if you’re certain that it’s going to fail? And fail it might.  Just like so many other efforts have. But no thanks to you and your anti-freedom kind. But I get it man. /There’s no room for the truth in your world. 
 I'm not dead set against it, I just know that free speech absolutism will not work the way you expect. It'll be you and a bunch of pedos and Nazis while all the normal people bail out and app stores pull access to apps serving the networks content. Seriously, a single child sexual assault image reported to Google or Apple with no ability to be removed would likely lead to an immediate purge of the platform and a legal case against the developers of the app. You may think free speech guarantees people the right to post any abhorrent shit they want but the law and the platforms enabling you to reach a wide audience will strongly disagree.

I'm here to see what the platform is like to see if there's any likelihood of it becoming a big thing. Based on the complete lack of ability to remove illegal material and the fact that the vast majority of the current users are bitcoin maxis who throw a full on tantrum when you challenge any of their opinions that it does not in fact have much of a future.

It's ironic that you think it's my world lacking truth 🤣
Reality is going to be rough for you my friend. 
 If I see stuff I don't want to see I mute the note or block the person depending on how bad it is. I don't leave the platform.

On the contrary, it speaks wellforr the platform's privacy any censorship resistance so in a way the presence of bad content which I can block makes me like the platform more. 
 Which is fine but most normal people will only put up with it for so long having to see the abhorrent content them mute it before they leave the platform. If I see even a single post from a pedo with illegal content I'll drop the platform in a heartbeat as would most normal people.

Will you still think it's a great idea if the platform ends up being a handful of die-hard supporters like yourself alongside a bunch of Nazis and pedos with everyone else having left? 
 You underestimate people's need for free speech. Session is a case study that has been about for a while. You get nasty stuff there too, worse than i have ever seen here, but the community is good and growing. Nasty stuff is a rare exception.

The problem here, at least using amethyst and iris clients, is theoretical more than a pressing issue. NSFW content is marked so and easy to ignore. 
 You overestimate people's desire for an absolutist view of free speech. I guarantee you that if you asked people if pedos should be able to post child sexual assault material without it being taken down that the vast, vast, vast majority would say they absolutely should not be able to.

On these platforms nasty stuff always starts out as an exception but as those people realize they can stay on the platform their content increase while normal people pull the rip cord and bail out. And as the content gets reported, other platforms such as the app stores pull access to the platform making it even harder for you to reach normal people. 
 Trouble is, once you make an application censurable, it is open to just that. We have seen the state grossly abuse its power in that regard during covid and many other cases.

That is the same state which funds intelligence services and permits them to enable the very same horrific abuse of kids which you rightly are disgusted by. Remember Epstein and if that is not enough, read Whitney Webb's "A nation under blackmail"

Blocking free speech because some may abuse it is not a solution. If you say it is, then you should next ban cars and every other tech which can be used for evil purposes. That includes the ability to censure, as together with propaganda it is used to brainwash people and enable wars with all the horrors these entail. 
 It really depends on what you want from the platform though. If you want a platform where no normal people frequent, the apps all have to be installed manually and you have to use dodgy relays and DNS servers and it's just you an a bunch of illegal abhorrent types, then the way it's currently going is the path to that.

But if you want broad reach then you have to be able to keep the platform within the law, and unfortunately for you (not me because I don't actually subscribe to the cult of free speech absolutism) that's going to require censorship to some degree. 
 I have to say by the way that you guys need to find better examples if you want to convince people that censorship is a bad thing. Saying "I wasn't allowed to spread dangerous health misinformation during a pandemic" isn't really a strong selling point.

If anything many normal people don't think governments went hard enough or fast enough at cracking down on misinformation and that resulted in a great many deaths. 
 https://kirschsubstack.com/p/msu-professor-mark-skidmore-was-exonerated?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=548354&post_id=138173269 
 So your response is to post more antivax propaganda? He may have skated by on the "unethical practices" claim but the paper is still retracted from real journal. The journal is has been published in is an antivax journal and so no objective peer review has taken place. Just a bunch of idiots nodding along with each other because the paper pushes the narrative they want even though to call it "factually inaccurate" would be a massive understatement.

Ultimately if what you want is a platform that allow Nazis, pedos, antivaxxers and conspiracy theories to circlejerk and cheer each other on, then congratulations you're getting that. But normal people will only see it as further evidence that cryptocurrency is designed to benefit the most abhorrent parts of society and will push back against your platform and the causes you are pushing.

And if you're such a luddite that you don't want to understand the actual science then you do you. But you choose to live in a society that has rules and will protect itself so don't expect the rest of us to allow you to put people in danger without repercussions. 
 most normal people don't get censored”. Wow, what an incredibly naive, dangerous, and ridiculous position.  
 "Historically when platforms go with the "zero censorship" approach, abhorrent content starts showing up and since it never gets removed people just remove themselves from the platform, skewing the ratio towards abhorrent content. Before too long it's just mostly just the people who post abhorrent content."

It's already started happening. Imagine seeing some really degenerate filth and deciding to stay around for more to see and block? Ew.


nostr:nevent1qqszye8h9k7898c6v7v3y8knj340xzuf8gdk5l4sd90na7qd9yjt3cspr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyrgwdepyr4l2vvdljx58gt3yysjhfjg6wquez2ge90sm3nsgflzccqcyqqqqqqggr9ea4 
 There is already a platform without harmful, offensive or otherwise uncomfortable content. That platform is an empty room.

I've only been on Nostr a few days, and its maybe 5% as offensive as highschool, and about on par with work. 
 I know what you mean but an empty room isnt a platform. Also, youre new here. I have seen an increase in this content. It might be the levels you mention now but a few months ago it was a lot less. The problem is its increasing here. It will get worse.  
 I believe you.

I'm thinking whatever we decide to do about undesired content, we should create a database of examples (and counterexamples) for testing filters and training models.

Has anyone started such a thing? I know Amethyst has a report feature, are the reports accessible anywhere? 
 This is a good question. Boosting for visibility. 
 Also add a lightning address to your profile so i can zap you. Let me know if you need help with this.  
 That's a lie. Swear at a genocide supporter, try to abandon the false etiquette and good manners of political correctness on X and any other centralized platform, and you'll see if you can talk about anything. This is a bullshit. I don't want anyone moderating my language, my thoughts or who I can or can't see. Only I want to have the power to moderate the content I see. Anyone who doesn't want to have this job shouldn't be in Nostr anyway because they're cattle. 
 It's not a lie, I've never had a problem. It sounds like you lack self control and are unable to control yourself in public. It's just like how you'd get kicked out of a pub if you started screaming abuse at someone you disagreed with.

And that's fine, you want zero moderation. Most normal people though won't stick around on a platform where truly abhorrent viewpoints are openly tolerated, so ultimately you'll be sharing a zero censorship platform with a bunch of extremists and noone else. You'll have inadvertently created an echo chamber anyway by alienating normal people.