Oddbean new post about login | logout @翠星石 You don't need to explain the terminology of IXes, peering, and transit to me > Most internet upstreams no longer charge for data downloaded, only a link cost [but] almost all still charge ridiculous amounts for upload Are we talking about eyeballs or content ISPs? IIRC for peering they require the upload:download ratio to be close to 1. Also, it makes sense to charge a content customer for upload only since they barely download. But do they also charge eyeballs for upload?
@翠星石 Like, imagine you're a tier1 ISP and some small tier3 fiber-to-home ISP wants to buy transit from you. Their last mile is skewed towards download, so the end users physically can't upload more than half their max download speed, and they likely won't upload much anyway unless they're into torrents. So you'd be getting like idk, 8 Gbit/s download and 0.8 Gbit/s upload from that customer? Do you charge them for upload & link only?
@7e00ff73 >fiber-to-home >Their last mile is skewed towards download, so the end users physically can't upload more than half their max download speed Then that's not a fibre-to-home connection - that's a copper to home connection. Every version of Ethernet that I can think of that is transmitter over fibre is entirely symmetric. >So you'd be getting like idk, 8 Gbit/s download and 0.8 Gbit/s upload from that customer? Do you charge them for upload & link only? Almost all upstreams don't charge anything for download (some scammers still do, but most ISPs choose another provider instead if possible), so unless the tier3 ISP is excessively greedy, there isn't be any caps or limits on download - you get line speed. But most upstreams charge for upload, so most Tier3 ISPs intentionally limit upload so it's impossible for each user to upload enough to impact the bottom line of profitability. For example, say you have a 100BASE-TX link to the internet, that means 100Mbit of symbols can go over that link every second - but your typical ISP will configure their routers to start dropping packets as soon as say >20Mbit/s of measured bandwidth is exceeded.
@7e00ff73 >Are we talking about eyeballs or content ISPs? I'm referring to internet upstreams that ISPs rent from for internet connections. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Content >for peering they require the upload:download ratio to be close to 1. Yes, the bean counters are constantly on the lookout for chances to start charging the other side. >it makes sense to charge a content customer for upload only since they barely download. As the transmission medium is link based and entirely symmetrical that makes no sense. Sure it's profitable to charge for upload and not worry about download for customers that mostly upload, but merely because something is profitable doesn't make it logical. Yes, almost all ISPs charge for upload, as that's what the upstreams do - the cost is passed on to the customer.