😂 then you don't understand LN and you believe the bullshit told by influencers who have never used it in their fucking life.

Ask yourself why in Germany kraken a banned Lightning, something I predicted months ago. 

 obviously you understand LN better than the folks at voltage 🙄

https://www.voltage.cloud/blog/lightning-network-privacy-explainer 

 I bet you a bitcoin if I make a payment to you and you find out who I am, in the same way if you make a payment to me you have to find out where that payment goes to the chain (here I will use something else besides lightning).

 @DarthCoin will be the treasurer, come on? 

 only if you send me back 2 BTC 😃  

 😂 

 how about you respond to the points voltage makes in the blog post? 

 sad.

you dont know shit about privacy if your attitude is
"it's private if a random person on the Internet can't find the destination"

clearly an Anonymous PFP doesnt make anyone a cypherpunk. 

 Cope harder. You couldn’t trace the payment and neither could anyone else. 

You can’t even explain how it would be done let alone do it. You don’t know shit about the LN. Maybe just don’t comment on shit your clueless on?

You’re just dug in cuz your Monero shitcoin is obsolete.  

 Bingo 🎯 

 Maybe I’m wrong to completely trust @Cyph3rp9nk but hey: I’m going with whatever you say to be true. 😂🫡🙏 

 I'm not asking you to tell me who I am, I'm just asking you to tell me from which node the payment comes from and to which address or chain the receiving payment ends up... 🙃 

 I’d rather just have my V for Vendetta party. 🎉 😂🤦🏻‍♀️😭😉

But FINE!!! If you must make me do it your way, we will see what happens.  

 Probably ok if you just wwant to avoid dragnet surveillance.

definitely NOT OK if you have a sophisticated threat model.

not that these guys care about the difference... smh 

 this isn't hard moron. its been an acknowledged issue for years.

here's Calle talking about it last year.
https://www.whatbitcoindid.com/podcast/scaling-bitcoin-privacy 

 I’m not listening to a two hour podcast from some fag wearing a gator who does not give a fuck about privacy at all.

State in three sentences the attack vector or stfu. If you use lightning correctly it is superb privacy.  

 LOL

when you are losing, the "find out who I am on the internet" never fails 

 How you Monero boys are, I'm offering you 1 bitcoins if you track my payments but you don't want to and the culprit is me 😂. 

 I will give you le 21 million bitcoins if you find out my home address from my youtube channel !!! checkmate, google apps = privacy !!! 

 This can’t end with me competing against multiple Evey’s on who gets to launch you. Maybe 🤔 

Cause you’re coming out with all the fire 🔥 right now. What happened to peaceful revolution? If I can’t be president I think 🧐 

Got it … must think more & learn more. Damn it again. You’re always right. FFS 🤦🏻‍♀️ 

https://media.tenor.com/xH8e_LlXP1wAAAAC/you-were-right-all-along-kyle-broflovski.gif
 

 lose the Guy Fawkes mask until you're older 

 ❤️ 

 Ima sit back & enjoy all the pixel popcorn 🍿 this brings. And yes 🙌, this is sexy as hell. 😂🫡🤦🏻‍♀️

https://media.tenor.com/eACbXnw3f-MAAAAC/yakutenok.gif
 

 Anonymity (identity) is different from privacy (actions and contents). Perhaps we won't know who you are right now, but we can clearly see balances and transactions on chain. We can also follow them going into the future (do you coinjoin before and after every single transaction? or do you trust every single person you transact with?). Even experts make mistakes.

It's not just about random anons like us either. Actors with more resource (governments, corporations, exchanges, and chainalysis) can do even more with it like inferring who you might be by using that data (amounts, addresses, timing, etc). The longer you use Bitcoin the more data you leave on chain and ever increasing chance of mistakes. 

 A few assumptions are made in some attacks in that analysis, such as “KYCed coins used to open channels.” Also, some of the suggested mitigations are already active in LN implementations. Of course people fuck up. In any case, it’s definitely more private than non-coinjoined on-chain transactions. 

 true true 👍

I'm all for improving BTC privacy and
as you say
its better than transparent on-chain txs.

but its also true that most mitigations are likely to be defeated as surveillance increases.
LN privacy is kinda like BTC in 2013. any "privacy" is mostly because nobody is looking.
ie, its not a battle-tested network yet.

and these "just use LN" morons are anti - intellectual and actively subverting people's privacy by saying there isn't a problem. 

 “most mitigations are likely to be defeated as surveillance increases”

Of course the same applies to coinjoined and Monero transactions, assuming no further improvements. 

 true
except CJs and Monero are more battle tested and already resilient. so barring extreme technical breakthroughs we have reasonable certainty they will continue to provide privacy.

which is NOT true of LN, where privacy guarantees are difficult to quantify, dependent on use-cases and poorly understood.

there isn't a whole hell of a lot anyone can do about a diffie-helman exchange ya know? its been around a while. 

 I’d say that CJ is part of LN privacy, as something that should always be done prior to using UTXOs for LN nodes. 

 Lightning has almost perfect privacy for the sender and now with bolt12 also for the recipient... 

 Thank you Sir 

 Thanx 

 Cope harder. Bitcoin is and has always been superior money. If you only ever use something to spend then it isnt money. If you only ever want something for privacy it isn't money, if you only ever pay in the shadows hiding from the state you aren't changing shit. I prefer my money censorship resistant vs private.  If the state can't stop it it doesn't matter how public it is.  

 "Pirate Chain (ARRR) is a minor privacy coin that has mooned significantly recently popping up from 30 cents to 14 dollars or so (it's halved since I started writing this article though). Pirate Chain uses the zk-SNARK technology, but unlike Zcash, uses it mandatorily (with optional transparent transactions like Monero via the private view key).

Pirate Chain has two big issues though. The first is what I mentioned before: zk-SNARKs as they have been implemented in ZEC and ARRR are not trustless. They require a setup in which theoretically, if the public parameters of the system were known to some inside party, they could print an infinite amount of the currency with absolutely no way that any other people could know.

Even if you trust the Pirate Chain developers, Pirate has another pretty undeniable problem: 90% of ARRR has already been mined and is in circulation! Yep, you heard that right: A minor niche alt-coin which has existed for only three years was put together in such away that now as big of a proportion of it has been mined as has been mined of Bitcoin in over ten years!

That means that that 90% is highly aggregated in the wallets of the two and a half people who knew of ARRR in this period, and anyone adding to the market cap is mostly just contributing to these people's bags. Even if Pirate Chain had great trustless technology (which is doesn't) it has not been set up equitably, but in a way that enriches early adopters to an extreme degree. Expect to get dumped on if you buy this stuff.

Honestly, if you want a better, more honest cryptocurrency, you could just take the Pirate setup and give it a slower and more sane emission. That would be a better choice than ARRR itself."

https://lukesmith.info/monero-and-other-privacy-coins/ 

 I mean, they literally named it after people who steal from others for a living so....... 👀 

 http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ 

 Seems shitty