Oddbean

Nostr is a decentralized protocol that is not private by default. Kyc or no-KYC has nothing to do with the Nostr protocol. Nostr doesn't come with a VPN, just like the internet. "Relays know your IP address, your name, your location (guessed from IP), your pub key, all your contacts, and other relays, and can read every action you do (post, like, boost, quote, report, etc) except for Private Zaps and Private DMs. While the content of direct messages (DMs) is only visible to you and your DM counterparty, everyone can see when you and your counterparty DM each other." -Amethyst on Github There are malicious nodes. Lightning is not private by default, especially if you're running your own node and receiving, sending is more private. By contrast, Monero is private by default. Nsec can be compromised just like any other password, etc.

Oh, I know. It’s not what you’re saying, or who you’re saying it to. But it’s a step in the right direction. Noting online is 100% secure. That’s why al-Qaeda ended up resorting to hand written messages passed from person to person. The best thing you can do is go grey man. Don’t attract undue attention to yourself. The FBI even runs thousands of TOR nodes. I’m not buying monero. I rely on just being not interesting enough to be worth paying attention to.

> Noting online is 100% secure. If your goal is that of remaining "private", Nostr isn't even 50% secure. Or 1% secure. You are 100% guaranteed that, unless you use some kind of protection that exists outside of the Nostr protocol itself, all relays you are using will know your IP. It's not a risk, it's an absolute certainty.

> I’m not buying monero. I rely on just being not interesting enough to be worth paying attention to. Good thing that none was suggesting you should buy Monero, or anything else for that matter. What you find interesting is a subjective feeling. The cryptographic properties of Monero and Bitcoin, however, are not subjective, regardless of what you or anyone else find interesting.

It is somewhat privacy preserving if "privacy" we don't mean "secrecy" (which is often the meaning in common usage), but, rather "control" and "ownership" (which is also the sense in which one should understand "privacy" in the context of the GDPR, for example). But, still, all relays will know your IP address (unless you're using some kind of protection outside of the Nostr protocol) and all your activities are public. Calling Nostr "privacy preserving" and "private property protocol" is rather misleading.

I agree the privacy preserving is a stretch. For me when I think of that message I think in terms of comparison to KYC or 2FA platforms. Meaning I’m only giving up what I choose to. I will never pretend IP address, Cellular connections and etc is anything close to secure. But the term isn’t effective and I retract the lunacy. 😀 In regards to private property. My nsec is my ownership. What I build, my social graph and time is stored as mine with that secret key. I tend to think that is private property as no one can take it from me so long as I manage it so. Zooming out, I appreciate this conversation. I don’t pretend to be right but I do yearn to learn. 🤙🏻

The thing is, who wins between Nostr and mainstream social media in terms of privacy really depends on your situation and priorities. In the case of mainstream social media, you're trusting one specific party. If you trust that party, and if that party is trustworthy, certain things will remain confidential between you and that party. I can't know who you message, for instance. If the party turns out not to be trustworthy, or is attacked, information that you didn't wish to be revealed may became public. On Nostr certain things that are normally confidential become public by default. If you don't trust any party, that's not really worse than what happens on mainstream social media platforms. If you, as most people, trust that mainstream platforms are at least very unlikely to ever reveal, for example, who you message, to the public, then Nostr is worse in this regard. Of course, using Nostr there is the benefit that posts can be faked by another party, unless they have your private key or you are using delegation.

It's censorship-resistant and transparent, not private. Like Bitcoin. There's a gain in individual freedom when markets can't be easily subverted and manipulated, but that only works if everyone can easily see what is going on. Freedom is not free.

The censorship resistance Nostr provides is very different from that which Bitcoin provides. There are some blockchain-based (not Bitcoin-based) social networking systems and they do provide a kind of censorship resistance similar to that of Bitcoin, but Nostr is fundamentally quite different.