random thought:
if i gave you a signed bitcoin transaction that spends a UTXO, you can submit it and once it hits the network and everyone sees it, if it has RBF disabled, it's as good as cash, i've signed off on it, and it can't be reversed, but you can CPFP in case i gave a bogus fee rate for the mempool condition
a recipient doesn't have to trust it, just broadcast it and wait for the network to verify it
and it is basically cash, without an intermediary to trust, just a small risk of payment failure or needing to pay more fees
I love the idea of having paper money that is somehow Bitcoin Satoshis for those out of cell service locations
well, if you have the wallet and you can unlock it and you have the key you can sign a TX and pass it to someone who gave you the address to send it to and it acts a lot like a cheque
yeah, it's a cheque! an e-cheque
it can bounce, as in, they can spend it before you broadcast it, but it's totally analogous to a cheque
is this possible with lightning transactions too?
is this somethign that can be printed out as a QR code?
I'm just imagining myself reading in bitcoin checks into an ATM or scanning them with my phone.
you can always make an invoice and copy it and give it to someone in physical form, on a usb stick or printed as a QR code
but that's an invoice, the signed payment is a payment (payment request, actual payment)
lightning payments in this payer-initiated format are called "keysend" or "AMP" and have to be submitted to the payer's lightning node to work, meaning access to the LN RPC, which is not the usual situation for a lightning node (usually access to that RPC is private to the person using it, for security reasons).
Keysend is neat. how do you feel about the bolt12?
well, it's something that would also enable a kind of offline cheque payment mechanism too, that's its whole purpose
bolt 12 is like a comitment to pay that can be redeemed by the receiver
it's a very cool thing, that has only got contingent risk upon the closure of the channels the bolt 12 offer contains
just trying to think of what the threat model... this enables you to pay with bitcoin without needing to hide your location, that becomes the receiver's problem
on a tor browser with mempool.space this is also handled
not sure what made me think of it, i was just busy rewriting my relay code lol
All you’re doing is passing the fees on to the receiver
Btw can’t the sender double spend if the original tx is stuck in the mempool with lower fees ?
the receiver isn't paying any fees, that's coming out of the UTXO
yes, this is another bounce risk, that they broadcast it again with a higher fee rate
it's not an instant payment, it's a contingent payment, like a cheque
What I meant was, if the sender low balls the fee, the receiver wants to get the tx confirmed, he will pay via cpfp
yes, this can happen, but if it wasn't worth doing you'd just spit at the bastard next time you saw them
the use case really is something like how it would work with a cheque though... the main thing is it can be conveyed offline, without intermediary risk... just counterparty... you wouldn't count the payment settled until it is in your utxo
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