They would not. We could barter. If they had a way to send precious metals, that would work. There's also monero, which I prefer to BTC for spending/sending since it is much, much more private and readily constable to and from BTC.
So... Not *just* BTC.
In Theory maybe but nobody would do this. Way too much cost, hassle and trust needed to send the barter by plane.
In the end you're transmuting your monero into btc.
Yes. So what?
Without bitcoin agorism couldn't be what it can be today.
It evolves. That's my only point and why I like to call it capitalistic sovereignty.
Agorism was moving along before BTC, which is just another tool to achieve a parallel system. It isn't dependant on BTC.
That's not what I'm saying
That's what it sounds like to me.
I said bitcoin evolved agorism. How could I also believe agorism dosen't exist without bitcoin?
Aside from the privacy & fungibility problems, I can make about 200 Monero transactions right now for the cost of 1 BTC transaction. That was more like 3,000+ when there was increased demand not too long ago. This is going to get worse as time goes on. BTC is a digital asset that you buy and sit on.
Properties of BTC are not ideal for a sovereign digital *currency*
Maybe. But I will use the highest form of money as payment for as long as I can.
If I manage to continue using the highest form of money over the coming years It's a big W.
I've also been using lightning for many paiements. You could argue that it isn't bitcoin and that wouldn't be totally wrong but montero is even less bitcoin.
I'm not going to argue that LN isn't Bitcoin, but are you the ~3% of LN users who use it without custodians and transact without permission? (no custodial wallets or LSPs i.e. run their own LN node)
Bypassing intermediaries is the thing that makes Bitcoin special - not the name Bitcoin. Other cryptos achieve that same goal with different properties.
You mentioned hassles earlier. Here are the hassles of sovereign LN (the only relevant comparable use of LN) that L1s like Monero and on-chain Bitcoin don't have:
-Need to fund channels before you can even use
-No static/offline addresses
-Can be rugged if node goes offline
-Can be force closed back on-chain (wasting time and money)
-Can fail to route a payment
-Larger payments will fail
-Lacks strong privacy by default (only applies to Monero)
I mostly use phoenix. Non-custodial lightning but I don't run my own node.
I don't believe bitcoin has to completely obliterate the idea intermediaries to succeed. Banks are not going away or something along the lines of it will come out. (Bitcoin e-cash and such)
I don't really see a problem in using something like monetary as a paiement tool if you calculated it's worth for you.
But it's not worth it for me in the moment.
Phoenix is one of the better options because theyre non-custodial, but theyre still intermediaries for your transactions. They can also see destinations and amounts.
Yes, banks will always exist. I'm just saying L2 vs L1 is apples to oranges (especially custodial/permissioned L2s). Makes more sense to compare L1 vs L1 (Bitcoin on-chain vs Monero)
I don't consider montero to be the highest form of money.
You're comparing L1 to L1 but one of them is inferior to me and I would seek to replace it with higher form of money.
I see that. Bitcoin is such a high form of money for you that you would even settle for currency substitutes that give away foundational pillars of Bitcoin (permissionless transactions). Can't argue with that conviction
On-chain is always available and permissionless. Me using a service that isn't dosen't change anything to what bitcoin is.
Have fun with your shitcoin man. Store your wealth in it and thrive 🌟
What good is the permissionless aspect of on-chain if you never use it or don't use it as currency? The properties of on-chain transactions have nothing to do with your LSP transactions
No need to be upset with me. I'm just a messenger helping you work out your cognitive dissonance.
It's not exactly permission less unless it's kyc free
Lsp use lightning and lightning use on-chain my dude.
I do use on-chain regularly for transactions.
I already told you I see no need for your transactional shitcoin right now. At the end of the day I'm not larping and using this real world. I know what's best. But you can keep pretending like montero is your savior.
Yes, LSPs are using the lightning network - not you. You're being allowed to tentatively use it. You pay an additional fee on top of the network fee for the privilege of asking permission. They can censor you at any moment. They can disappear and your wallet becomes useless. Are those things permissionless transactions? No
That's okay do what you want.
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