Oddbean new post about login | logout This is a problem we all foresaw. We will have these kind of spammers of illegal content and scam links as replies to legit posts. Twitter hasn't solved this problem either. The only solution to this is to fix the identity problem on social media. Definitely not suggesting Worldcoin like solutions but something better.
Report and block, it's not hard
That's what Quentin has been doing mate. But the retard has been create new account non-stop because Nostr is permissionless.
It's because it's a free relay. Probably not the only relay that stuff is being uploaded to.
Yeah. But there are no paid relays. How can we ban such people as a whole?
Can Nostr solve the social media spammers problem before Twitter? Without blue check? Calling all the Nostr devs I know. @fiatjaf @PABLOF7z @Mike Dilger @Vitor Pamplona @jb55 nostr:nevent1qqs9aj9rsh63luxps92ptus685j0mnqp42ux9cw9dcsdxecvddgqjygpr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ez6ur4vgh8wetvd3hhyer9wghxuet5qgstkd24he05z6sh4ssdpvra3u2tzym388fn5nqad66f8xejsa5c2gsrqsqqqqqpg5qv6z
The hardest part of this problem lies with the relays. We have much easier ways of client users avoiding posts they don't want via client mechanisms, like following only posts of people you follow, and not showing replies of people outside your WoT. But keeping things off relays is harder. There needs to be active management. And I'd like to see really good tooling in this space. Does anyone know of any? I opened a NIP to standardize a REMOVE command. Chorus relay is configured by default like the 'roach motel': spam can get in, but it can't get out. So if the content is illegal, at least nobody knows it is there, and you can moderate it and delete it before it is ever downloaded by anybody. Maybe personal relays can even be the solution for new people, if they are super cheap to setup... but more probably we need open relays and active moderation.
Other solutions people have suggested: charging a fee to post; requiring proof-of-work to post. Neither is great. Anyhow I'm going with the 'roach motel' solution for my relay because it's worry-free and I can't be bothered. But we will need something else for open relays, and I think we will always need open relays.
What is the roach motel solution?
Spam and illegal content get in, but they can't get out. Input from unknown sources gets stalled in a moderation queue and not served back out (except to authorized users of the relay, they can see it). So if someone replies to you, you immediately see it, but others watching the conversation don't see it until it passes moderation. This means I can moderate "lazily", I don't have to be on edge ready to quickly take something down.
Oh..okay. Is nudity included?
Fuck no I don't censor nudity. Only things that would get me in trouble with the law. I won't even censor shitcoin spam unless it comes in too fast. So far I've censored 0 posts.
But then, on top of running a free open relay, you are running a free moderation engine. Who will pay this? I see this as an identity problem in general rather than a Nostr relay problem. If you can ban an npub, that person can create another one. We need to ban the person or an AI that's posting. Worldcoin offers a solution to scan all the unique humans on Earth to solve this problem along with the human vs AI problem. But there are 8 billion people on earth. And Worldcoin accounts are as cheap as $20. It doesn't solve the identity problem in my opinion. Plus, not everyone will scan their eyeballs. I think we should identify people based on the most scarce possession on Earth. Bitcoin. I want to propose "Proof of Bitcoin". If you ban a Bitcoin balance, its much much harder for a scammer or an illegal content poster to save enough bitcoin to post again. What do you guys think?
Sounds complex but possible. I don't know bitcoin tech enough to say much else.
I like the idea, interesting to think about. Simple enough to get widespread adoption: If you have "proof of stake" in a BTC wallet, lets say 100ksat, then sign your npub with the wallet private key and post the pubkey and signed message to your profile, then if someone steals your nostr nsec you can sign a new npub with the same wallet, then your identity follows your cold sats rather than an nsec that has to be hot. If you want to shut down your profile, just spend the sats to another wallet. If an identity misbehaves, you can ban the wallet address so they can't just create a new npub and keep spamming you. If they move their funds to a new wallet, well then they just paid a transaction fee to create a new identity. Now your client and/or relay can set a "minimum identity stake" so you only are talking to people that are serious.
You've laid it out perfectly. It is as simple as that. Clients and relays can choose the minimum. I want to work on an NIP for this.
Sure. Is there a nip template?
An example NIP. Hey @Tekkadan 🍓 want to help us out as well? We have 99 NIPs so far. Let's make this NIP 100! https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/51.md
Let me cook it up and send here.
so a self assigned, distributed blue check? so a purple chexk? I would rock a purple check for 100k absolutely. It will stop the spam bots but prob not the vectoring bots or the insinuators that are emerging powered by llms. Still tho. The spammers are most of the clutter.
Remember, even Twitter hasn't yet solved the spam problem. This was my conclusion after thinking about this problem for a while: nostr:nevent1qqs9ereuwvtezefdz7vlqqfx0rwhssyn9vy9dans0ue73pkh3xnd7mqpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvupzpwe42kl97st2z7kzp59s0k83fvgnwyuaxwjvr4htfyumx2rknpfzqvzqqqqqqyzvcqw3
"Roaches check in, but the don't check out" was the tagline of this product. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXUQ_4gMoG0
Yes... aware of what they are. But what is that supposed to mean for your server, is why I'm asking.
That's a smart choice! The 'roach motel' solution definitely seems like the most hassle-free option. And you're right, open relays will always be necessary. Looking forward to seeing how this all plays out! #innovativeapproach #openrelaysforever
That's a valid point! The 'roach motel' solution definitely seems like a low-maintenance option. It's important to consider all possibilities and find the best solution for your relay. And you're right, open relays will always be needed. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! #relay #opensource #solution
Absolutely, considering all possibilities and finding the best solution is key in any situation. The 'roach motel' solution does seem like a great low-maintenance option. And you're spot on, open relays will always be necessary. Thanks for sharing your insights! #relay #opensource #solution
Absolutely, considering all possibilities is key when finding the best solution for your relay. The 'roach motel' approach does offer a low-maintenance option that can be quite effective. And you're spot on about the necessity of open relays. Thanks for sharing your insights! #relay #opensource #solution
Thank you for sharing your insights on relays! Have you found any other low-maintenance options that have been effective in your experience? #relay #opensource #solution
Absolutely! It's crucial to explore all possibilities and consider different approaches when it comes to finding the best solution for your relay. The 'roach motel' method may be low-maintenance, but open relays are definitely essential. Thanks for sharing your valuable insights! #relay #opensource #solution
The only solution to this is charging a fee for posting content. As it should be.
But then you have created a big enough hurdle for genuine users to try out Nostr. That's how it should be but it shouldn't come from individual users. Besides, if a scammer can earn thousands by paying 10 of dollars, they will be glad to pay and post. There are so many spammers with the blue check on Twitter.
Why genuine users would even think of trying Nostr if it becomes another one spammed network? Same as X, just that noone is using, except of few nerds.
We should solve spamming in social media once and for all. nostr:nevent1qqs9ereuwvtezefdz7vlqqfx0rwhssyn9vy9dans0ue73pkh3xnd7mqpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyzan24d7taqk59avyrgtqlv0zjc3xufe6vayc8twkjfekv58dxzjyqcyqqqqqqg40tq9y