Oddbean

Okay, point taken. But your unit of account is still the USD. Exactly what do you think you're measuring these things in anyway? iow, they are USD denominated. You are comparing relative fiat "value."

Really though, I measure big things (house, car, wedding ring) in BTC & smaller stuff in fiat, but there's no good reason for me to measure XMR in fiat. Hell, the reasons I used to measure BTC in fiat are dwindlimg with time. 😉

Welp when it comes to math & algebra: I simplify all the way. I end up with a BTC denominator, even though I still sometimes measure things in dragons, no one needs to care (except I guess, USD maxis like yourself) 😅

the point is that BTC denominator is actually (BTC/USD) and the only reason I harp on this is because maxis trash fiat as an arbitrary UoA 90% of the time, then whip out a USD denominated chart when it suits them. the intellectual dishonesty bothers me.

The denominator **is** arbitrary, because they always cancel out. It's amusing you're harping on this **necessity** for USD to be in the conversation, when there's provably no logical need for it! (see the above algebraic proof, and the fucked up state of the global economy, "denominated in dollars") . Look, you can't just arbitrarily put USD into the chart (in your head) & then complain when folks tell you you're being arbitrarily & stubbornly horny for fiat.

while you are correct that algebraically it cancels out, the reason I make the argument this way is because the chart is ALREADY usd denominated. the BTC value is (BTC/USD) the XMR value is (XMR/USD) you are still using fiat equivalence to measure them against each other. while you are correct, you could use anything exchange charts use USD.

exchange PAIRS are literally order books with two assets. Why would XMRBTC traders, for no reason, calculate the XMRUSD price, then calculate the BTCUSD price, then divide the two? The order book has a bid/ask/LAST price right there! Bisq is a p2p bitcoin exchange that uses atomic swaps between cryptocurrencies. It doesn't just randomly inject USD bullshit into each trade!

it's true that DEXs are where BTC is going to become a UoA first. in exactly the way you suggest 👍 and other p2p markets denominated in BTC will help but CEXs are still mostly the way I describe it. and your bid/ask etc still basically follows the USD price of the other asset. in almost ALL cases.

I highly doubt CEXs do those unnecessary conversions, when the order book already has the data they need to execute teades. Simply a bunch of offers and a bunch of takers, with different sizes and different price points, neither side having any interest in USD here, constantly matching their order lots between eg BTC & XMR or whatever.. Even shitty engineers would need to put in legitimate effort to be that wastefu & it presents a big risk of slippage if the conversions aren't 100% realtime. (It's certainly not impossible)

no you're right, they don't. I was oversimplifing. You're being specific and I appreciate that. but however you slice it, the order book is following the USD price of the asset 99.9999% of the time. so while I acknowledge there's nuance, the charts are de facto USD denominated.

and frankly man you're still measuring in USD when you translate the price (in USD) of a house or car into bitcoin. still fiat denominated. this continues until it is an actual UoA and MoE. that is to say, that prices are set in BTC.

I've been measuring RE, used cars, my salary, these days groceries too in bitcoin for years. You're welcome to wait your turn to switch denominators for that (again arbitrary) time in your head when it makes sense to switch, but it's a major life hack you're waiting to take advantage of. Patience is a virtue