Oddbean

Which client will remove follower counts first? 👀 nostr:nevent1qqspah8s3fky3hrprdg7aw6rl9fef57uhlytvc0v266dcuc32qzv89qppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsph3c2q9yt8uckmgelu0yf7glruudvfluesqn7cuftjpwdynm2gygrqsqqqqqpavmv2r

💯 to needing a better metric regarding npubs. Maybe PageRank. Except … that won’t work. PageRank is an extrinsic metric. Follower count is another extrinsic metric. I want an intrinsic metric. Example of an extrinsic metric: fame. It’s a relationship between the user and the community. Examples of intrinsic metrics: height, weight, intelligence. Those things are independent of the community. PageRank is an extrinsic metric, kinda like fame. We need to modify it so it’s an intrinsic metric, more like intelligence. GrapeRank is a modification of PageRank that converts it into an intrinsic metric. Suppose I want to know the height of user1. Users 2, 3, and 4 estimate 5’11, 6’1, and 6’0, and communicate those results to me. What do I do with those numbers? One idea is to add them together. User1 is … 18 ‘ tall. Obviously that’s the wrong metric. This is the PageRank approach. The right metric: weighted average, which comes to 6 feet, give or take, depending on which of users 2,3,4 I trust the most. GrapeRank is a weighted average. Simple as that. GrapeRank is a nonlinear equation, as opposed to PageRank, which is linear. But who cares? Use the easy algo and get the useless metric (18 feet), or the slightly harder algo and get a useful answer that estimates objective reality (~ 6 feet). Trynta write this out in long form today. 🤓

“Who’s to say” — always hard to know where to go with that question. Who’s to say that coke is better than Pepsi, or bitcoin is better than shitcoin, or meat is healthier than seed oils, or that the earth is round and not flat? Some of these statements communicate subjective taste. Some are statements of fact. Some are statements of utility. Hammers are more useful than feathers for hammering a nail. But who’s to say? That’s just, like, your opinion, man! 😂 Some WoT algos are useful. Some are not. So do you think it is reasonable or worthwhile for me (or anyone) to promote algo1 as being more useful than algo2? Is it a waste of time or a good use of time for us to ask the question: is this algo useful? Could there be a better one? https://i.nostr.build/EXhwoHEw0yQvGTRi.jpg

It's almost as if we need several WoT or ranking metrics to choose from because what's useful to one person may not be to another. For example what if I feel zaps are the signal and you feel that comments are a better metric? We all have our own rankings.

YES THIS 🎯 This is what I mean when I talk about “interpretation.” You gather follows, zaps, likes, number of responses to someone’s posts, whatever data you think is relevant. You interpret it meaning you translate each category of data into a “rating” in a common format selected by you bc you find it useful. I propose the rating format needs, at the least, a score. Even better to have a confidence and a context. I decide I’ll “interpret” a follow as a score of 1 (probably not a bot) and a mute as a score of 0 (probably a bot). A zap I also interpret as a score of 1. But maybe you don’t trust zaps bc they’re not verifiable (unless it’s ecash) so you don’t use zaps in your calculations. In any case, you now have a ton of “ratings” that you can use to calculate a WEIGHTED AVERAGE which feeds into the GrapeRank score which will ultimately be more useful than follow counts or PageRank in the same sense that hammers are more useful than feathers at banging nails into wood. (Well, I guess that’s just my opinion … utility is subjective and arbitrary … who’s to say?) More useful bc you can use the above score as the weights to calculate the next round of scores, like: which relays, mints, etc are the most trustworthy? Actual pain points.

I think that's a very bad idea. People who start out and don't have much interactions in the form of likes and zaps, will be motivated to stay when their follower count grows (even if slowly). It's the only metric for starters to see progress on their account. Removing it will probably make more people leave in their first weeks on #Nostr

Here's the thing... Legacy social media systems aren't bad. They have been the start of a long, long list of wonderful things that wouldn't have happened otherwise. I have plenty of my own experience with that, not to mention the other peopleI know who do as well. The systems were hijacked and misused strategically over time by those who look to exploit such systems - which happens no matter what the system is. (5% of the members of all populations are pathological.) Maybe it's better to focus on fixing the angles used to exploit the systems, building to circumvent those vulnerabilities. **PSA: THIS IS NOT A RESPONSE TO THE QUOTE. ONLY A THOUGHT SPURRED BY IT.😄** nostr:nevent1qqsq8jjzpxrgvr0cp7273kvun23rzlqmaryxuw9d8zxpsdtppxa6e3gpz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wchsyg82rehksd6pa3en8dz58l4kjpgxdrmdvlc97yuj3c3xklf5nlsqq5psgqqqqqqszhc07j

Turn that around. How much readers wouldn't dare interact with an account with a large following? Maybe afraid to say something 'wrong'. Or think their interactions are not worth it or will be snowed under in the replies? Would they participate more if these stats were hidden? Maybe... I don't see growing a follower count as 'progress'. I personally never look at it and don't care.

This is indeed a good argument for the other side. However, I still prefer to have this metric visible. I do care about follower count, since I plan to go write long form content soon, and it's nice to know that you write for a big (er) audience. There is a good chance that the interaction will be very low in the beginning. In that case a growing follower count will be a motivator. Happily this decision will be made per client, so we will probably both get what we want!

Nos did this already. We only show some avatars of people who follow you and then when clicking in to view it’s only mutual followers. For individuals this is not a big deal but for organizations where they are looking at metrics I definitely get questions. https://image.nostr.build/0a90d67bad321767f15384995f5ca2e7ee71e085ba8a90dd9c2ca1464b7246c9.jpg https://image.nostr.build/0d266bca9cc66c56743fc08b867452d94047ff9c6dabdddb4264292c80b51130.jpg