What would be your ideal then? If not grants or p2p?  

 P2P is perfect. Some sort of user voucher system would also be okay. Bounties can be nice, depending upon how they're structured.

Grants from OpenSats are more attractive as topping-up of project crowdfunding, over something like Geyserfund, rather than as individual grants (which are quickly devolving into employment contracts, which is the opposite of what I'd want). 

 What if there was something that paid for the infrastructure, like software, computers, hosting, etc? To alleviate some of the cost that came out of your pocket?  

 Then the grants are tied to expenditure, which is arguably worse.

I have no idea why OpenSats doesn't just contribute to crowdfunding, like other funds do. Everyone wants to know why we don't apply. Nobody asks why they expect us to apply. 

 This is a great question to ask the people on the panels and their approach.  

 run your own company p2p funded. 

people have barely cracked the commerce nut here yet. 

party's just getting started. don't be late to the parhty. 

 I was thinking about this today. Over the last year, I heard a lot of support and complaints about a non profit, and today, I am like there are going to be so many options in the future. And kinds of avenues. It's coming. There will be something someone wants. People need to create this as well. 

So yes, the party is just getting started.  

 Hmm. Yes, lovely.
Any contract carries strings, even if it's just the psychological burden of implied expectations  or an unpleasant affiliation.

So, if I'm already building something I'm enthusiastic about, and someone says, "Hey, can I pay you to add this doodad to it, so that I can use it for this new use case?" that might be a good contract to consider. Other contracts are less appealing.

Each contract needs to be examined on a case-by-case basis. And rejected, if necessary. 

 So Nostr is a hobby that you are willing to put some money into?  

 I've been putting money into Nostr for almost a year, now. I've invested much more in other people's projects than I have received funding for our own project.

I am, in other words, a dev who personally funds other devs because I know that the other funding is primarily locked up in grants and I want them to receive some independent funds, even if it's not very much.

They work hard. I respect that. They deserve to get money P2P. 

 You should start a Nostr fund then haha get a bunch of people who will support those needs  

 That's basically what I've tried to do. 😂 

 Is there a site dedicated to this type of project or a game plan?  

 https://geyser.fund/project/gitcitadel 

 Ty, I will look at it later.  

 https://invincible-privacy.github.io/donate/ 

 👀 

 Basically, or consider it a risky time investment if you will.  

 I think that is a silly way to think about it. Everyone involved is literally changing the internet. And if nothing comes of it, something came out of it.  

 We are the ones spending our time. We carry the risk. 

 I suppose, a literal cause an effect, but it doesn't mean my time investment helped my career or earned me a profit. 

 In my book, that's a very narrow monocular viewpoint. It means you can't see intrinsic value before it happens. 

 I'm simply arguing that any time investment has the ability to fail, because its a risk. I work maybe 10-20hrs/week on nostr related projects or team brainstorming, meanwhile earning 0 return. I have been doing that for over a year now in various ways. If I fail to make friends, market my products and gain a paying user-base I've done nothing for myself. If I fail to earn a profit directly or as a direct cause of my efforts, that's a failure. 

>It means you can't see intrinsic value before it happens.
who determines value of a product or a time investment?  

 The work you do is the intrinsic return. I don’t think its a fail, i think its a win. 

Does an olympic athlete view every missed jump attempt as a fail or as a experience on their learning curve to becoming a champion? For every triple axel landed, there were thousands of misses 

 I understand the point your making in an attempt to bridge the gap

olympic athlete - Already mostly accomplished. If I've worked on an application I believed had value but failed to display that value to users, did it actually have value? If a tree made of pure gold falls in the forest and no one finds it, it may be valuable but unless discovered it's it served no usefulness. 

However gold is a bad analog because we exist in a world where it's common knowledge of the value of gold and takes almost no risk in the same way. 

Maybe a better analog would be the mine-safe lantern. If I spent years building a life-saving device, well it clearly has the objective ability to save lives, but if it fails to get used in place of legacy fire lamps did it have value? The original product and designer are not actually the adopted product, the person who sold it better is the winner (arguably most products). An equivalent might be that activity-pub becomes the winner over nostr. Application specific time was wasted and product design has almost no congruence, I can't take hardly any of the work I've done with nostr there.  

 To be clear I believe this is far from a pessimistic view. I believe it's motivating, in sort of a burn the boats in a way, but to pretend it's not a massive risk in a time sink is a false belief. 

 The time I could have spent looking for contract work or applying for jobs, updating my website, whatever,  is spent instead working on projects or libraries that are generally of no use to fiat companies, in fact any relation to crypto anything can often a turn off.  

 Its R&D. If you understand R&D on personal level, not institutional - Always have a smol budget for bleeding edge research. If you don't wanna, that's OK, you can choose to stay with the status quo and be late to the party. E.g. "I'll wait until bitcoin hits 100k and has mainstream endorsement" 

 Bitcoin is meant to be p2p digital cash. nostr is the decentralzed social + commerce platform that allows us to conduct txs in this fashion. 

we're already doing p2p funding, don 't need an additional funding layer. 

 💯 

 Nostr is "just" a third party protocol, the user looks for customer solutions 

 Yeah, that's what we're hoping. 

 No, its way more than that. 

But at this point, its like me asking people understand the potential of amazon or alibaba when its just 1997. 

Everyone laughed at my mom when she was using alibaba in 1999. Now who's laughing at who? 

 I'm not starting a funding company. I'm starting a company (@GitCitadel) that aims to run primarily on P2P payments, in the form of donations, crowdfunding, bounties, or subscriptions/fees. One of the reasons we formed, is to pool our resources and give people a larger group of devs to fund with one payment.

One of the big draws of OpenSats is that you can easily donate to an entire group of active devs, that way. Well, you can do that with us, too.

OpenSats and its individual members, are also free to zap us. 

 He's on our project team. 😂 He's already working for free.