I'm simply arguing that any time investment has the ability to fail, because its a risk. I work maybe 10-20hrs/week on nostr related projects or team brainstorming, meanwhile earning 0 return. I have been doing that for over a year now in various ways. If I fail to make friends, market my products and gain a paying user-base I've done nothing for myself. If I fail to earn a profit directly or as a direct cause of my efforts, that's a failure. 

>It means you can't see intrinsic value before it happens.
who determines value of a product or a time investment?