Oddbean new post about login | logout #nostr is becoming a real nothing burger! No key management! Total control of the majority of devs by proxy VCs and non-profits! Complete circle jerking and simping! Implementation of eCash and Fedi, which are again VC investments! Almost zero development since I joined it! Thousands of printed bot followers! Trending 24 are VCs and their simps! Fuck it, to be honest! This is not the place I wanted to be a part of!
I can keep going on!
Hard to tell if this is sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek, or a wake-up call...
The downsides are big on here ! We all know about it and you it 😉 Another one IP leaks to the whole internet that makes everyone target ! It’s funny that none profits and VCs are very bullish on nostr haven’t put any bounties to fix the real flows but instead prioritize their investment future strategies! Fuck it !
No lies detected in anything you've said. The deliberate IP leaks are something that I bang on about, for example the spyware in njump dot me and nostr dot com. The elite devs are mainly simping there, I would agree. You can see many devs being groomed in realtime, many simping and sloganeering. There is so much LARPing going on. There is a king maker effect, but that could be fixed from the clients, for example primal, which I use has various dropdowns for trending, but most give the same engagement thirst. Building has gone done alot, and become more centralized, including the NIPs, yes. But I dont find myself as pessimistic. We're builders, we can fix it, these centralized artificats are expected (although sometimes disappointing) as a project grows. We just recognize them and route round. As you say, nostr is a last refuge. It was really hard work to get this far, and we're probably not going to make it again. We can still make nostr the happy place, imho, it just takes longer, and being honest about our falings helps!
Nostr is a toy ! Wake me up when it will be something that not will through people under the bus by those who are trying to dictate the development
No lies detected. It is indeed still a centrally controlled toy. It needs to transition to a transparent, community driven, FLOSS project. The problem is that the elite devs have persuaded themselves they've done that already, but they have work to do, and no one wants to do it.
Of course I agree and can understand this train of thought very well, but please don't forget that we are still very early in this matter and something like this develops over a long period of time. If you think in a limited way and can't see this potential it's just natural and perfectly acceptable, Rome wasn't built in one night either. To give a simple example, I will come up with "wavlake" and if you have noticed how these large centralised companies exploit the people they select for themselves, talent falls by the wayside.... Far too much talent is being wasted by a flawed system. If we are completely honest and look at it from a bird's eye view, we have no choice and have to take it as it comes, but we can influence how it comes. I have realised what a blessing this protocol is, because we can stop it if something doesn't suit us. But this is only possible if we all work together and realise that we have to free ourselves from this social parasitism. Let's look for solutions to the mistakes that shouldn't exist!
Having a permanent public record of all my npub's activity, plus associated metadata (IP address, timing) - it feels like a disaster to happen. Not having an option to roll over your identity into a new npub is a major issue for. It's like constant address reuse in Bitcoin.
Completely agree. I mean npub + nip05 + key rotation as it evolves with time. IP address should not be stored. Only the fields the user wants.
but the relay operator can always log incoming connections and IP addresses, no? Outside of the Nostr protocol. So they are huge data collection honeypots
Yes, unfortunately that is the case. It happens far too often on nostr, for example fiatjaf's njump dot me and benarc's nostr dot com contain spyware that deliberately send your ip address and browsing history to certain VC (bad guys imho), without gaining user consent. I try to raise awareness of this, but there is very little action, sadly. Nostr needs to develop good reputations for those that respect privacy. Most currently do not. Sadly.
Wow I didn't even know that. Really bad. But in general, the Nostr protocol is just not private, but pseudonymous - and thus succeptible to the same dragnet-style surveillance as Bitcoin. You just need to collect enough metadata..
What spyware are you referring to?
What is it that you are looking for
?
what would a place look like that you would want to be a part of?
nostr was my last shelter! I will just go offline ! Some of closest plebs whom I know and knows me already know how to find me without anything like nostr or centralized social medias or signal, simplex
There is no replacement for true human connection. Nostr or anything
There is replacement! Go offline ! And those who know you any way can get in touch with you thought the more better ways than nostr.
*through
I think that’s what @kepford was saying. Real human connection instead of online connections like nostr or anything else, which I agree with.
💯
Yes, this place seemed cool, but I am sarting to open my eyes now too. Shils everywhere...
Then you're doing something wrong, because what you're saying doesn't correspond to reality. I could list enough projects now that are tinkered with on a daily basis, and the best part is that it's based on a single protocol that stands up to censorship. But if you prefer closed sources and don't want transparency, you can use the broken social media and have your opinion censored. That being said, it's not even about social media as many people think, because this is just a presentation of what's possible. It's about this protocol being open to all, and if you know that, you really shouldn't complain about it, but start contributing and addressing the issues you have with it, because it's an OPEN PROTOCOL ;) #opensource
List them. Genuine challenge. Preferably off the top of your head. We used to have nostreport do that, but they dont any more.
nostr:naddr1qvzqqqrcvgpzphtxf40yq9jr82xdd8cqtts5szqyx5tcndvaukhsvfmduetr85ceqyw8wumn8ghj7argv43kjarpv3jkctnwdaehgu339e3k7mf0qq9xummnw3ez6er9weesmx4s79
Nice list. But how many are still "tinkered with on a daily basis".
I don't know, but we now have the largest, steadily-growing, dev team and we're building Big Things on our own stack. We're starting to deliver. Should only speed up, from here. The others had a huge head start, is all.
💯
Of course I understand your train of thought and have done it often enough myself! If we watch out together, it's definitely better than something centralised ;) I have completely different concerns about energy and centralised energy, which we probably won't see again, but it's still dangerous when a central authority controls and determines energy.
Been down that rabbit hole of Why tf am I here and what's my purpose... Found out it's to get others to join, even if that means doing something some of the folks i follow and follow me, don't agree with, like what I do with nostr:nprofile1qqsp4udlg85fa3q3vl0vun9jzj8uv9e6qkfa9w9kzx7yw798nxpux7gpr9mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuumwdae8gtnnda3kjctv9us44d65 As long as you are doing something to bring people into nostr or bitcoin and at least give them a chance to change their lives and the future... What more can ya ask for my guy?
Soon you will realize that you might just pumping someone’s bags under the “nostr is the best of the best, bro just join VC client and don’t forget to connect VC custodial wallet as well, shitcoin ecash or Fedi is the best so they can get your sats and print your balance”! Time to wale up!
buh muh primal
There are proxy clients as well
Good thing we have freedom of choice....support who you wanna! Try helping https://mostro.bilthon.dev/
You don't follow us, so you don't see us, so you claim we aren't even there. Okay. Also, we're building more complex things, now, not just throwing up the upteenth social media client with Kind 01 notes. The development used to be much easier, so more developers could engage in it. We're building enterprise systems, now.
You got upset that you commented once under the note I posted and I haven’t responded to you and not followed ?
What are you really frustrated about? It can't be all of those things
Build the freedom tech not the spook tech!
You first
You will be saying this to everyone who have no skills to write a code ?! Dirty, stop smoking weed !
NEVER https://image.nostr.build/82eda9560284bc05e655c376c4b20a6f2a5e31bdb958bb2df7b881a767474632.gif Also, there are ways to build freedom tech without knowing how to code
It damages the brain cells 😉 You don’t have to tell me about the ways!
You follow the wrong people.
?
Self-custody is for anyone, not everyone. Sovereign-minded people have that option available to them. It's opted into. That's the point. Therein lies the true price of freedom—I can't bring everyone with me. I agree about the simping. Everything takes place in the open here, and some of the bizarre incentives at play are unsightly. Weird witch hunts, cults of personality, and mindless product shilling. That's also one of the reasons why I don't listen to many podcasts. I've rigorously sculpted my feed to tune out the "PODCONF" narratives and now I'm satisfied with the amount of signal I have. You're totally wrong about the amount to development happening here. There's so much fucking FREEDOM being made here that I could burst. I don't know anywhere else where I can find liberty-minded people doing actionable things. Everywhere else I go, people seem to be waiting for a savior. I would've gone completely apeshit last year without a place like Nostr
Amount of development is focused on building VCs bags that they will be able to extract what they injected on here in the future ! There are simple but necessary things that haven’t been developed on here for over a year! Don’t be dumb!
https://audio.nostr.build/9a921fd478757195460004f3d78591baaff7eea7fe76c4a65713e53fb70f108a.webm Could those things have been built in a year, though? Try following devs who are building things other than Primal or whatever
I've been developing my server by myself for a year and a half, no venture capital, no funding, no ego bullshit. Like me there are hundreds, #nostr is not just the circus you refer to in your note. As many have told you stop following the VC circus and start following and supporting those of us who are truly out here alone, fighting against our own time to try to improve this fucking world.
this is total bullshit, everyone here is building his thing because he like it and think that could be the right way. Noone forced into nothing and I dont see any Vc impositions, just money flowing were value resides
Don't leave i feel you . But things are about to change 🫂💜 follow the good people filter and mute 👀⚽️🎉 Make fun and Just Smile 🤣👈
Not leaving yet! Just trying to wake up everyone so they can see the other side and where we are heading
What is being done here is important, even though you have valid points, nostr still has a long way to go to become the project it aims for. Please try to make your rant more constructive
Rant constructive ?! Nostr isn’t bitcoin! There is not too much risk of braking something on here ! Just start playing around with implementation ! No need to follow bitcoin development style strategy! It’s been over a year that we don’t have anything built on here that would at least hide our IP or change NSECs ! If the current devs can’t figure out why then don’t find someone and offer bounty or whatever to fix the current issues! How long this place will be honey pot ?
Nostr is open source, things like "trending" doesn't even exist in my client, development has been happening and very fast imo. There aren't enough developers to do all the things that are possible and that people want, even less devs that get paid somehow. Key rotation is a very difficult problem to solve, I guess because of that it's not a priority and for now we must just deal with that, maybe something based on web of trust can solved it. IP and Metadata leaks are just how nostr and the internet works, my advice to people is, don't use your real identity and maybe nuke your npub from time to time. But even that is being worked on other fronts, many apps are moving from url/dns coms to Nostr events, wich is already a big deal, IPs like Vitor said is the last boss, but many projects can be a solution in the future. The thing is Nostr may have some flaws now, but it's already a lot better than other solutions and it has a lot more potential, it just needs time because there is a ton of possibilities and a few devs.
The priority of devs is totally different stuff! It should be clear that we can’t onboard people into the protocol that doxx their locations, that doesn’t allow them to change nsec or even delete account! It’s a honey pot that must be fixed! It’s been over a year that we don’t have a key rotation! There were ideas but nobody cares! They focus on building ecash and other crap to rug us more ! Sad !
How would you delete an account in a protocol that whole purpose is censorship resistance? It's the same as asking to block a bitcoin transactions.
You can signal to relays right ?!
Relays don't have to comply. I can run my relay and broadcast your notes all over again. That's why you can ask relays to delete a note but it's hard to effectively have it deleted because your note can be on hundred of relays, that's the point of the protocol, not being able to censor your notes, even if it's you who wants to censor it with a delete.
Sure ! I just gave you example that it’s possible and there are def solutions we don’t know yet. Same applies to delete and edit notes
Also, if you think there is a solution nothing is stopping you or anyone to implement it. nostr:nevent1qqsgmlerlhljcdv4thwm6xpcr3d0er28p3hrr2fl57r3damcyn8fxyqprfmhxue69uhkummnw3ezucm9wf3kzarjdamxztndv5hsygy2aa6u5fa0qzn0wrq5sedw22rqenwrdr6xfxw8ea4jx54snfcf75psgqqqqqqslmj98r
I’m not a dev 😖 Just a pleb
You can make a proposal of how it would be done, and devs can tell you if it work or not. From my understanding as a dev, it wont be possible to "delete" accounts, best you can do it switch to a new npub, announce it publicly in the protocol and somehow (web of trust or other nip) your followers will follow the new npub and the old one is just ignored by your web of trust.
That’s what Pablo already proposed with a PoW implementation
Reading your note and replies.. What I get from it is that I'm not really anon? And that the on nsec can be linked to the other? Could be reading it all wrong.. I been changing nsecs, one like this one and others for just testing the ground to see if I can use different faces/nyms ( fot family, work, footbal nsec , ballroomdancing etc). What I find weird is that I had some followers come from one to the other nsec or just some I think as suspicious. Got me thinking 'am I paranoid?', or can others whom are tech savvy figure out who/where I am? #asknostr
No, no one can link them just with the protocol, even tech savy, but relay operators probably can by watching that those npubs share the same ip, that is the same for every website, if you have an account and the an anon one on the same site, let's say Twitter, they will know if they want to.
In twitter case we assume that only Elon has access to our information and in case of law suit against my nym only under subpoena to Twitter can disclose this information! Totally different story here on nostr! It’s open to everyone and not too many of us really protected
Knowing software development, probably it's not only Elon but a bunch of devs in Twitter and they can probably know that accounts are linked. Privacy on the web is really hard. Nostr by its nature is not good for privacy, because that's not the purpose of the protocol, you can be anon, but everything is public, it's the same problem with onchain bitcoin, censorship resistance and public open protocols are almost opposite of what is required for privacy. Myself personally I have no problem with that, my only concerns are: not having important personal data leaked if there's an hack in any platform, and I don't want people to be able to easily link my many different accounts, but I am very aware that if a gov or gov agency wants to track me they will, no matter what, and that applies to almost everyone.
nostr: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
I disagree with most of takes except for ecash, it is shit tbh, delegating sovereignty for convenience why don't just integrate stripe then...
It’s ok to disagree
I disagree with all of these. But my largest takeaway is how do you expect developers to eat if they do not take money? starting a business is hard work and it puts you and your family at risk. being able to take grants is a life saving tool and I do not fault anyone for being able to do so.
The Leader of Nostr has Spoken. Must be true
tenor.com fancy SpongeBob
Amen Derek. If someone considers that something in nostr is wrong, he/she should start to develop by contributing his/her time and energy as some of us do.
People who whine about stuff they get for free, never ever contribute anything. People who appreciate stuff they get for free are the only ones that ever contribute to the improvement of stuff they get for free. One group acts like petulant children, the other file bug reports. It's really that simple.
Oh come on! That’s silly! Let’s now tell to everyone who join nostr and give their feedback or criticize it “start contributing” with such mind set you guys will be alone on here circle jerking the same stuff all over again! P.S. I have dedicated my free time(a year I believe) by contributing as much as I could on here for joy and entertainment purposes. But you probably already forgot it😏
You might not like my response but I will say it because you might not see how it looks like from the other angle or you know it and that’s the goal! Derek, you are as simp king on here disagree with the any criticism and trying to please everyone and everything for your future own benefits to build around nostr plebs or build yourself as another “nostr guru”. I never seen any takes from you that you criticized or took the other sides! About the developers how they will eat. It’s very simple to understand the fact that in open source environment most likely you will contribute for free or someone will donate. Developers who have to feed their families should figure out how to monetize their products or work in other fields to make $ if they can’t do it in bitcoin or on nostr! Coming on nostr and simping because there are few VCs and few none profits giving away billionaire money is the most cringe way to do!
I love simping for every person that's building on Nostr. I don't think I'll stop doing that.
Not sure what you mean by zero development? 98 apps here in just over a year.. nostrapps.com
I've noticed similar trends. It occurred to me it may be normal for such a tech. There is a lot of power in a truly decentralized social media and the powers that be will want to control it best they can. As far as I can tell (perhaps control of NIPS may be my downfall here) we just have to build around the things that are crooked and expect nothing in return like VC money or trips abroad or followers or glory whatsoever. These are the truly valuable people because they can work without ego taking control of them.
