Oddbean

Until the system is fixed so that people even in extreme poverty both know how (and are able) to build up their ability to afford access to contraceptives through their own efforts, impossible with FIAT currencies debasing savings and wages, forced birth is nothing but a punishment of further impoverishment for those who cannot afford contraceptives and choose to have sex anyway. Because having sex is not optional for any creature in the Animal Kingdom including Humanity, it's genetically built into us to do it regardless of anything else. Forced birth almost always happens to women who would never be approved to be foster parents or adoptive parents due to lack of a safe environment or resources. Are you in favor of mandatory state taxation to care for the children born to people who cannot care for them but are forced to carry them to term? What about state taxes going to fund the burials of women who don't survive birth but would've survived abortion? Do you prefer homeless or abused children instead of state funding? I have seen what the world does to homeless children, it is not pretty. They are often enslaved, crippled, and abused. Raising humans is not cheap, and it is a punishment to both the woman and the child to force the child to be raised in abusive environments or to be homeless. That is immoral. It is also immoral to force people under penalty of prison to pay to support children nobody wants.

There is nothing more simultaneously ineffective and effective at prevention pregnancy than abstinence. Abstinence as an action in the moment is the most effective method of contraception, this is not something anyone argues with. But abstinence as a policy for long term birth control is the least effective way of preventing pregnancy. People want to have sex, full stop. All humans are biologically driven to breath, drink water, eat food, and have sex to reproduce. People are recommended not to eat unhealthy, yet the physical drive to eat that is taken advantage of by all the processed foods give us a society with pandemic levels of obesity and diabetes. Similarly recommending people to just not have sex, is not effective at preventing it. The data indicates that abstinence only education causes more unwanted pregnancies and abortions than it prevents.

My desire? Dude, we live in a world where people are going to have sex whether we think they should or not. Do we want to condemn both those ignorant people and their conceived child to a miserable life? Stop making this about me "wanting to have sex" my sexual practices are irrelevant to this argument. I do have sex but my partner and I luckily are not in poverty and utilize contraceptives, unlike a significant number of people around the world. At the end of the day, this is another thing Bitcoin fixes. Because FIAT is why the majority of the world remains in poverty and unable to support themselves or their potential offspring, so they don't practice safe sex as much and they have abortions more. When everyone has a stable financial foundation, and access to knowledge on effective contraceptions, unwanted pregnancies and abortions will both reduce significantly. That's our mutual goal as a society, to reduce suffering caused by unwanted pregnancies and subsequent abortions. I'm pro reduced suffering, I'm not pro abortion except where it can reduce suffering. Ultimately Bitcoin is the solution again, which is why it's my focus overall.

We loved on a world where people didn't have sex of they didn't want to get pregnant and if they did nearly 100% of people made do less than 100 years ago. But now it's impossible for us animals to suppress our desires. We're nothing but smart monekys with no personal responsibility for our actions. Makes sense when you look at the world in a way that makes that little sense.

I am not a subscriber to Malthusian population theory, the earth has more than enough resources to support many more people than we have today if we use the resources wisely which the FIAT system prevents. You seem to associate with me with beliefs I do not hold, this is a failure on your part to have an honest argument. I do not believe that anyone has the right to use someone else's body without their consent. I do not care if the person needs the other person's body to survive, they cannot use it without consent. Just as I do not subscribe to the belief that forced organ donation or forced blood transfusions are good even if they would reduce death overall. Removing or not providing consent can sometimes result in death, as it does in the cases of abortion or a lack of available organ donors, but that does not supercede the importance of consent in our dealings with each other. I do not care if the person dependant is created through the actions of the other person who's body is needed to survive, because no action gives automatic consent to the future usage of their body by another person against their will. You seem to believe that forcing children to be born to someone who does not want them and cannot support them is preferable to not being born at all. It is not. Unwanted children are at much higher risks of every type of abuse, physical, mental, emotional, sexual. Unwanted children are at a much higher risk of being human trafficked. I would rather not be born than to be born into those sets of circumstances. You speak on a subject without compassion for those involved, and crusade on behalf of those who cannot give their opinion otherwise. You advocate non-consensual forced usage of another person's body against their will. That is slavery. You sir, are in favor of slavery.

Not ending their life is "forcing them to be born". Life is in fact preferable to death. nostr:nevent1qqs06t2qwws7rae6zglmj350t7qkrwn4j54tftqf4tuxhyclg8jw7kgpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtczyzmul4rjl7grgs0vdn24hdgxl96yyydxu689y5jagfz9z6da5ql45qcyqqqqqqg0dwydw

Since you have openly said you do not care about the individuals involved or their extenuating circumstances, let me know when you decide to adopt abandoned sexually abused children who you forced to be born to drug addicted parents who didn't want them and sold their children to pedophiles. BTW not only do they have intense trauma that will take a lifetime to recover from, they also need to be given drugs to wean them off their pre-birth derived addictions while they likely will keep lifelong mental disabilities related to their early developmental environment. There are many of them in the foster care system right now waiting for you. I personally know people who have done exactly that, and they are incredible individuals for doing so. It is easy to decide someone else's decisions for them based on supposedly higher moral grounds when you yourself have no consequences for forcing them to do so. I do not agree with you that forcing people to be born into a miserable abuse filled suffering life is preferable to just not being born. Your viewpoint makes me nauseous, shame on you.

Biologically there are 4 things people are driven to do with enough drive to have created 8,000,000,000 people alive today. 1: Breath 2: Drink water 3: Eat food 4: Reproduce Good luck telling people all they have to do is not do what their hormones are driving them to do. Abstinence only education works so well to prevent teen pregnancies doesn't it? I suppose we should prevent people who have obesity from getting help too, it's their fault they're fat after all because all they had to do was not eat! You do not live in the real world.

Your claim is people are too dumb to make responsibe decisions. I think more highly of human beings. Humans are accountable for their actions. Making a stupid decision does not mean you are devoid of consequences.

Humans, when given the opportunities and education to know the best courses of action to avoid consequences of their actions, are generally reasonable and responsible people. I do think highly of well informed people with resources at their fingertips, but that is not the state of the world today. Most people are deliberately kept in the dark with abstinence only education being the dominant education on sex given to hormone filled teenagers in conservative controlled countries such as much of the United States. There are also groups that fight contraceptive access and that discourage condom use, these are mostly religious groups who view pregnancy as divine punishment for women that shouldn't be avoided. I think we agree more than disagree here. Expand access to contraceptives and expand education on safe sex practices, rather than just telling people "no sex! sex bad!" as is basically currently the case, and unwanted pregnancies and abortions would naturally plummet. That's what we all want, less unwanted pregnancies and less abortions. Just because I'm pro-choice doesn't mean I'm not also pro-life, but I believe consent of the woman and a desire and ability to care for the child in a safe environment free from abuse should be what every child born should expect. Children should be born only to people that want them and can effectively care for them, they should not be forced to be born to someone who doesn't love them and is likely to abuse or neglect them.