Oddbean new post about login | logout Me this week 😭 https://i.nostr.build/DjDoV.jpg
I used to be the biggest container bro and even worked in the industry....now...I see it is a waste of time lol
Containers are the way 🤷♂️
What makes you say that?
Linux containers are a waste of time because you have to reinvnent the wheel for starting and stopping services. And you have to make sure that your containers are resilient for restarts . You have to spend a lot of time making the container too when you could just deploy once on a machine and it will always work. Also, containers would be super simple and awesome if they supported system so you don't have to reinvent the wheel for starting apps or services. It's just a time sink
then you probably need lxc, not podman/docker. As every tool, kubernetes/docker/podman are useful in some scenarios. They are specifically tailored around an idea of one (main) process per container. But ppl are more like: everything look like a nail when I have a hammer.
Podman is buggy and terrible..... devs should make better applications or optimize. Most apps require a database which ends up being a bottleneck because they dont scale like applications
may be. however not all applications are the same. Sometimes you need just functions, serverless or similar. I wrote apps based on kappa architecture which scale very well (processing and serving tbs of same data for different purposes and apps) Particulary when you can simply just add processors/functions without any server configurations.
Containers & Micro-services add complexity & confusion & cost. Not the other way around. Bring back SOA & waterfalls. Not my opinion. This is fact. I worked with some of the best Java devs on the planet & this was the overwhelming consensus.
I can't imagine running thousands of containers for an app. Seems like a nightmare. I'm just using docker containers the same way you'd use VMs for now. It makes deployment much easier for what I'm working on.
Yup. That’s a good use case. The VM analogy is solid. At scale is where most things just crash/burn.
Luckily, my scale is like 10 people haha. It's nice working in a niche.
👊👊👊 Keep it open source brother. That’s the key.
All the tools are open source (except for one stupid SQL server container I need, at least it's free), but I'm rewriting trade secrets I reverse engineered while I worked there directly in the code, so there's no way it's ever seeing the light of day. If I get this elastic stack stuff working, I'm absolutely making a repo with an example setup that works for other people. It's ridiculous.
kubernetes makes running tens of thousands of containers manageable, speaking from experience. I really like using docker-compose for what you’re describing. quickly bring up a few containers on my local machine. I like to use a Makefile so instead of typing “docker compose up/logs/down” I just type “make run”
Fuck Kubernetes. Right in the fucking face.
😂 would not recommend kubernetes unless you’re a large org with a microservices architecture and a dedicated team to manage it.
Dedicated it correct. Bloated shit always requires the dedication 🫡
I don’t know of any better orchestration system for building large scale hybrid clouds for a microservice architecture.
Docker compose is what I'm using. I didn't even think about using makefiles though. I have my services split into multiple files, so I just made some convenience scripts to run the dev version or prod version, etc. I wanted to eventually deploy to kubernetes, but it's a lot to set up for an app that's so small right now. Heck, my client's IT department is so bad we can't actually even get them to deploy anything. It's a big ask to get an old engineering company to learn new tricks.
ECS Fargate is a simpler solution if you don't want to go the kubernetes route.
Look into Nomad.
Roger that. Haven't head if it up until this moment so will for sure check it out.
It’s open source. Scales. And is the best solution on the market IMO that nobody really knows about.
nice! scripts or Makefiles, same convenience. would caution you on k8s… heck you can simply install docker on a Linux box and it’ll run your containers in the background and restart them if they die. manually run cert manager and you’re pretty much done. k8s is great to learn but it can be a nightmare to operate. I used to run my personal stuff on k8s using k3s on a single box. after like a year some mTLS cert expired and I couldn’t get kubectl. after banging my head on the wall I burned the whole thing down. now I either use docker to run containers or systemd to run binaries. no bs. nothing to break.
There's honestly no need when I really think about it when I consider who I'm making it for. Docker compose will do just fine for a long long time. Those guys were at one point just happy with a python script they had to run manually on a VM they already had something else running on. Cause it worked and it was useful beyond anything they had previously.
that’s the best. you’re probably like a magical superhero to them. ✨
Always have been 😎
What did docker do this time?
It's not really docker's fault so much as elastic's security features. Just aligning the stack and getting all the permissions and certificates working smoothly is a real endeavor, and would be giving me problems no matter where I deployed it.
Ah. And I assume that you actually need the security (as in, it's externally visible)?
If it ends up in azure, even though it'll be in a "private" VM running inside docker compose with no ports exposed... I don't trust Microsoft. So I guess I'm being extra paranoid enabling SSL between the elastic containers, but it is also the default. Odds are low I actually need to fuck with the security at this point and could have everything open. But screw sunk cost fallacy. I'm all in now.
That makes sense. Although, couldn't Microsoft just tamper with the VM?
