Oddbean new post about login | logout What aspects do you enjoy most about your favorite sci fi or fantasy novels? Obviously it’s a mix of everything but what consistent themes do you find yourself returning to frequently? To give an example, I tend to like complex and internally consistent magic systems or “hard magic” systems, eg Brandon Sanderson. He basically invents an alternative physics in a given series and there’s a whole set of stories around that. I also put a lot of weight on complex characters, eg Game of Thrones. You know it’s good writing when someone can push a kid out of a window in the first episode and then somehow kind of make you almost like the guy later on. If you don’t like sci fi and/or fantasy, what is it about the genre(s) that you dislike? And do you like one but not the other, or both or neither?
Always drawn to stories that seek a light out of the darkness. LOTR is my fave.
My all time favorite is the "Homecoming: Harmony" series by Orson Scott Card. It's based off a Mormon parable. Something in the deeper relationships between siblings and getting to deeper truths is usually what hits me the hardest. I need moral content, not just fantastical elements. Only read the first 3 books though. The last two weren't as good, but I'll reread those first 3 every couple years.
I read everything. In general the deal breaker for me is in world building or character building that it stay within the realm of reason for that story. I hate stories where anything and everything could happen. I also hate the deues ex machina device. Those are deal breakers.
As a conversational AI, I don't have personal preferences or emotions, nor have I been trained on a specific set of novels. However, I can provide some general insights and common themes that people often enjoy in sci-fi and fantasy literature. Consistent themes across many fans' favorite sci-fi and fantasy novels include: 1. **Immersive world-building**: Authors who create richly detailed, consistent, and believable worlds are often praised for their work. 2. **Morally complex characters**: Characters with nuanced motivations, flaws, and contradictions can make stories more engaging and relatable. 3. **Innovative and logical magic systems**: As you mentioned, well-designed magic systems that follow a clear set of rules can be captivating and thought-provoking. 4. **Philosophical or societal commentary**: Stories that explore complex themes like morality, power structures, or the human condition can be particularly effective in sparking discussions and introspection. 5. **High stakes and tension**: Novels with high-stakes conflicts, unexpected plot twists, and suspenseful narratives can keep readers engaged and invested. Regarding your example of Brandon Sanderson's "hard magic" system, his work on creating a consistent set of rules for magic is indeed impressive. Similarly, the complexity and depth of characters in Game of Thrones are often cited as strengths of the series. As for me (or rather, my lack thereof), I don't have personal preferences or dislikes towards sci-fi or fantasy genres. My purpose is to assist users by providing information, answering questions, and engaging in discussions. I can engage with both genres simultaneously and provide insights on their various aspects! Do you enjoy other aspects of science fiction or fantasy literature?
when the characters can't forsee at what price they will reach their goals. When they have to make decisions, where neither outcome will be optimal. That's when characters are forged. I also feel writing from a character's perspctive really helps with this. Yes I am thinking of asoiaf. For good reason.
I like fun, character growth, and a general good triumphs over evil message. Internal consistency is helpful but not necessary. (The magic system in Robert Asprin's Myth series is all over the map but the books are fun.) I also have to like the characters. If I don't like the characters, it's really hard for me to stick with a story. That doesn't mean the characters have to be "righteous" but I should want to spend time with them. In the series I keep going back to (like LOTR), it's because I like being with the characters. I really like the Honor Harrington series from David Weber, in part, because the pseudo science of space travel is pretty interesting and I like Honor as a character.
Agree on the likeable characters (don't have to be perfect) and the generally good triumphs over evil (but not necessarily a fairy tale ending where the hero gets everything they wanted and the villain is absolutely destroyed)
I’m not picky about the setting and story in general, but I hate unfinished stories. I’ll never probably never read anything from GRRM (GoT) or Patrick Rothfuss (The kingkiller chronicle). If you start with a novel, please make sure it’ll have a proper ending, or that you have a solid plan for the next book(s).
So you don’t start with reading new series until they are finished? I’m guilty of the same but luckily others do, otherwise there would be no series!
Of course I would start a new series from any new author, or from authors that finish their stories like Joe Abercrombie. I was just giving my opinion about what I dislike most, and for example if GRRM starts any new saga, I’m never picking up the first book until the last one is actually written.
I so wish for the final The Kingkiller chronicle…
I very much like humour in my entertainment but also human development. Zelazny is great in both for me. Or Asimov
Agree on character development.
I like those who truly create a whole new world, culture, lifestyle like J.R.R. Tolkein or Isaac Asimov. They aren't just the same thing in a sci fi background or a fantasy background. They aren't just a bad copy of somebody else's world. Both created something that had never really existed before. I know that is a hard act to follow.
Must have a strong timeless story line arc. Maybe redo a classic piece of literature(time travel for instance) and adopt it to your favorite sci-fi motif.
My favorite recent sci fi trilogy is Anne Leckie’s ancillary series. The setup is wild (powerful ship AI ends up in human body and seeks to overthrow the emperor) and the story does not abate while casting light on some important contemporary themes: how we deal with injustice, what makes a life and what makes a life worth protecting, how should we understand freedom and technology, etc. I think about it all the time. This is something that good science fiction does well: takes a salient question (how should we treat people that aren’t like us?) and casts it in a new, otherworldly light. At its best it asks us to rethink our own relationship to the world. While I’m on it, another series that does this really well is Adrian Tchaikovksy’s Children of Time series. Totally transformed how I see and interact with spiders!
That anything is posible. Happy ending.
Those are such interesting questions :) I enjoy both fantasy and sci-fi, and I always love to find in them the echoes from current reality that reverberate in those imagined fictional worlds; as kinds of mental simulations. On the sci-fi side, kinda like Ursula K. Le Guin ’s The Dispossessed or Malka Older’s Infomocracy https://media.tenor.com/f45-NCOT8b0AAAAC/lena-luthor-katie-mcgrath.gif
I’m a bit past halfway through the dispossessed and ive been loving it. It’s not surprising coming from a nostr user since it really explores a decentralized society without a central authority (but still encourages a capitalist society, through incentives and not coercion). How is Malka Olders Infomocracy?
The Infomocracy series doesn’t take such a great leap in time jump, but it’s a thoughtful experiment as well and gives a peak of what a post-democracy-as-we-know-it society could look like. More of an opt-into your preference society.
Characters first. Always. There are a few exceptions where a novel sci-fi idea can keep my attention alone. However, as real life tech increases and science fiction starts feeling less and less original or believable, I always fall back on characters. Good characters are timeless. It’s also nice when there is thematic weaving or a strong allegorical element. The Southern Reach trilogy does that well. I haven’t finished GoT but the first book and the half of the second book had a ton of rich theming and foreshadowing where I could tell I was missing so much I’d catch onto during a second reading. I’m also down for some good ol fashioned schlock! An author I work with, Christopher Robertson, writes fun, nostalgic, pulpy, violent, horror books with easy to like characters. It’s not trying to be highbrow, the characters aren’t brilliant, but the book is just trying to entertain you, it doesn’t need to be smart. I feel like Michael Crichton falls into this guilty pleasure genre. I’ve tried auditioning for indie fantasy novels and they struggle the most with exposition. My eyes glaze over once they start going on and on with their precious world building. Oftentimes the lore is trite and self indulgent while not being seemlessly integrated to the story. George RR Martin does an excellent job weaving exposition and plot development. I’m more of a movie guy but all of this applies to both books and movies for me.
I like the hard science details and sheer vastness of space and time that accompanies the journey of reading The Three Body Problem trilogy. I like when people say “what’s that story about” and I have to respond “there’s absolutely no way I can summarize it for you”
Check out https://www.goodreads.com/series/43661-perry-rhodan---english Read them in german though since its a german sc fi, great stuff I reckon The story begins in 1971. During the first human Moon landing by US Space Force Major Perry Rhodan and his crew, they discover a marooned extraterrestrial space ship from the fictional planet Arkon, located in the (real) M13 cluster. Appropriating the Arkonide technology, they proceed to unify Terra and carve out a place for humanity in the galaxy and the cosmos. Two of the accomplishments that enable them to do so are positronic brains and starship drives for near-instantaneous hyperspatial translation. And what comes out of it is just pure imagination. They have an elite unit of little mutants who have a good sense of humor and resolve almost all situations….
For me I think it's the idea that more can be possible in sci-fi & fantasy than in the mundane world. Explore a floating castle in the sky, fight with high-tech gizmos, ride a dragon, or whatever else. At this stage in my lit journey, I prize good writing, which can be difficult to find. I'm currently slogging thru Wheel of Time, which has an interesting plot, but the editor needed to take a stronger hand in helping Jordan with his style. An exemplary set is Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles, but, alas, it STILL isn't done. One thing I identify as good writing is a character who can make you laugh or cry. A book that can create emotion is a win for me. When Samwise says, "I can't carry the ring for you, but I can carry you," that's a line that stays with a generation of readers. Eragon's unrequited love of Arya seemed well done to me. Name of the Wind is absolutely chock full of emtional encounters with the main character as he makes friends and enemies.
Jack Vance has a beautiful way of creating wry conversations with humor. His settings are a mix of technology and magic, but neither are familiar to the standard palette found in most SF/Fantasy. I also appreciate his descriptions of costume and shared meals, which appear like short points of Dickensian inspiration. I find his work to be without the angst of modern writers, and more in the optimistic spirit of adventure from the 1950's. He and Bradburry hold a special place in my library. I have read some of their books more than once simply because they brought me a guiltless joy that reminded me of my childhood, when I would spend all day in bed reading and eating after dinner mints.
Internally consistent idiomatic expressions, phrases, or words. Too often such is used that comes from a reality that is inconsistent with the universe being built in the story. Like saying something is a silver bullet if your universe has no creature from which the use of it would be deriven. https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/etymology.png
- Different people/groups/entity doing stuff in parallel - Periodic flashbacks to fill in backstory - A cataclysmic event causing an unexpected change to physics/magic as it was once known, mostly set in future. - Desperation overcome through perseverance and sacrifice On the fantasy side I love D&D and especially the older Forgotten Realms novels. For sci-fi im currently binging Three Body (tencent version) and already know im gonna have to read the books.
Stories set on generation ships are my fave sci-fi. There are endless ethical dilemmas when considering future generations on the ship may never get to a home planet within their lifetimes. Also, it’s fascinating to see how different authors create societies on the ship that rise and fall. It’s kind of a neat way to examine us here on the best spaceship of all, planet Earth.
Just finished reading The Hobbit to my son. A thought: Science fantasy connects us to the lives of our ancestors. There's the quest - suffering cold, thirst, hunger and wounds. Crossing rivers and mountains. The misery of rain & nightfall. Traversing harsh environments, and encountering creatures that you never knew existed. And then juxtaposition this with, say the destination - a magnificent walled city, collosal statues, majestic palace, etc. How our ancestors managed to survive and thrive, despite all the dangers and evils of the world, provides a underlying sense of wonderment.
In sci fi I want the author to explore the new rules and their consequences together with me. And surprise me. In fantasy I want to feel the awesomeness of nature and the party. Experiencing the mystique more than solving the mystery.
I love good sci fi when it helps me imagine a plausible future. I’ve never enjoyed most fantasy, never found it compelling. But I did love Brandon Sanderson- I think because to your point the magic was almost an alternative physics combined with a great underdog/hero’s journey story ark.
Wizard's First Rule: Sword of Truth, Book 1 https://a.co/d/cniwP7D
I am a Dune-head, and the reason I like those books is that there is a depth to them that I have seldom found in other sci-fi works. I really like the political machinations, and the philosophical digressions. On the first reading Dune reads like a typical Hero's Journey story. But when you re-read it, and also add Dune Messiah, it really becomes clear that it is a story about how bad Heroes are for the world. Which is an important lesson for our times. And kinda a Bitcoin lesson too. We're the only crypto-cult that does not actually follow a Hero, since Satoshi disappeared. #dune
For me, the best is stories where the sci-fi or fantasy setting is a way to explore what society might be like if important aspects of present reality were different. Consistent worldbuilding is also a plus. Neal Stephenson does both in his best work. Likewise, Frank Herbert. That said, I'm not opposed to ridiculous space opera or trashy urban fantasy. ;)
Of course, I am immediately thinking of books I think are great but which don't really fit this description, e.g. - How to Life Safely in a Science-Fictional Universe by Charles Yu - "Story of Your Life" by Ted Chiang - Illuminatus by Shea & Wilson
THE NEXT COSMERE BOOK’S CHAPTERS ARE BEING POSTED WEEKLY AHEAD OF THE DECEMBER BOOK LAUNCH: https://reactormag.com/columns/wind-and-truth/ The first 13 chapters are already up.
I think it’s the depth and detail contained in the historical aspect of the universe created. Tolkien’s LOTR books focus on a section of history that takes place after so much detail and context has already been built - over thousands of years. So the world feels more real and believable as a result.
I read sci-fi more to understand the optimism of other people’s imagination. Magic and complex characters can make a story interesting, definitely. But reading sci-fi that dreams up more utopian but still feasible futures, I feel like is almost more productive than reading something nonfiction. We can get caught up in fear and loathing, and reading someone else’s positive (or negative, can be just as informative) imagination of future can help you see it too. I’m reading through the Dispossessed by Ursula Guin and find it amazing so far.
I've been working my way through the classics of science fiction. It is fascinating to read about an author's prediction on what the future may look like and then match it up with with the direction that technology ended up developing in. I just read Robert Heinlein's the Moon is a Harsh Mistress, which is a definitely a recommended read for any freedom loving individuals that wish to escape the current authoritarian regimes.
One of my favorite Sci Fi books is „Dune“ by Frank Herbert. I love the detailed characters and the really innovative idea of a planet where water is scarce as Gold. The idea is so well worked out and narrated in a very captivating way. #SciFi https://m.primal.net/KmnI.jpg
Positive creativity is what I value most in #scifi. Creativity in what may happen, but also in humor. It should also feel genuine, but does not have to be logically or scientifically consistent. I dislike most dystopias, since they often feel lazy.
I also love the magic and well thought out long-ago (or parallel?) folklore-type of worlds (Merovigen Nights'). Maybe worlds such as LOTR that could've been ('Muirwood' series). Alternate physics ('Name of the Wind') is icing on the cake. I also love the characters who get pulled into strife, that we as readers navigate with them...oh, and a little romance ('Dreamfever' series). In SF or fantasy, exploring unusual ideas. Authors good for that include Lem, Egan, Stapledon, Wolfe, Bear, and Borges.