Oddbean

Where's your objectivity? Where's your intellectual integrity? You're engaging in biased reasoning, rejecting information out of hand that conflicts with your preexisting beliefs, and discrediting sources that don't provide information that support your position. What about the trial summary sourced from the federal court? Will you reject that too because it doesn't confirm your beliefs? Read from page 19 of the linked PDF... https://web.archive.org/web/20221207223347/https://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/ULBRICHT-ca2-20170531.pdf

Look people are not guilty of things that they have not been found guilty of. The courts had incentive to prosecute him and being skeptical of the judges opinions is not a stretch That IS objectivity Uncritically accepting their ideas is not. "We've decided sentence him as if he was guilty of murder for hire even though he wasn't actually found guilty of it in a court of law" Do you hear yourself?

You're misrepresenting my position. I didn't claim he was found guilty in a court of law. I stated that the court determined he engaged in the hiring of contact killers relating to 5 targets, and used that conclusion in his sentencing, as well as in his appeal. I'm not arguing it was a good decision, or that he should have received the sentence that was passed. I'm just stating that the court determined that he did it, and used that determination when deciding on a sentence. And then the appeals court also referenced the trial court's determination in deciding to reject his appeal. That's it. All this other stuff you're attributing to me is simply not accurate.

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I don't know why you're quoting that note. It's a restatement of what I just said. I presented the facts of the case based as supported by the trial summary. Once again, I'm not taking a position on it, or claiming what's true or not true. You seem to be arguing the substance of the trial and questioning the decisions of the court, which is totally valid. But I'm not a surrogate for the judge, and I'm not asserting that he's guilty of hiring a hit man. I'm just stating the facts of the case.

A court can't determine that he did it without a trial. They can argue that they think he did it when they turn down his appeal - but they can't find him guilty without a trial. Using evidence of one crime - that has not gone to trial - to contribute to the sentencing of another is awful.

The court can't adjudicate him guilty if charges aren't filed. But the court can make a probable determination based on the evidence presented, and use that when determining an appropriate sentence for related adjudicated charges that the defendant has been found guilty of. And the appeals court questioned the severity of the sentence, but upheld the conviction and sentence, and didn't find fault with the lower court for considering the evidence related to the contract killing attempts. It sucks, and as I've said, I think the sentence was overly harsh and he shouldn't spend rest of his life in prison for the convictions, but the judge's reasoning and decisions were reviewed by the 3-judge appeals court and found to be proper and within the bounds of the law.