Oddbean new post about login | logout I like Primal. I like what they're building. But this single aspect of their service is so fucking grotesque. It is such a turnoff.
they talked about their rating system at nostrasia apparently each like, repost, reply and zap is equal to a specific amount of points (can't recall the exact figures)
Tanel, don't be dense. Certain accounts are artificially boosted in the algorithmic score.
playing devil's advocate (as i often do) i agree with your statement, was just trying to find why it wouldn't be true the trending tab in it's form creates a fixed thought leaders space and a circlejerk around the same takes without variance
It is what it is. Influencoors being influencoors. You invest enough and you get preferential treatment. Instead of intellectual honesty about it all, they'll simply reply "Don't like it, go build your own" if confronted about it.
yeah, severely dislike it how would you like to see a trending tab get done? because the interactions per post of the influencers are gonna be inflated regardless
If they naturally get engagement and interaction, so be it. Trending feeds create a feedback loop of engagement. If certain accounts are artificially boosted into it on a consistent basis, then they are consistently getting more engagement and exposure than other accounts, not based on merits of their content but based on preferential treatment. That needs to go away. Ideally, trending feeds would be powered by data vending machines that allow the user to see criteria important to them and then receive a feed of top posts based on that.
I suppose the justification for it would be that these people have large followings on other platforms and have the greatest possibility of bringing people over. They promote primal on other platforms, those same followers come over, and see names they are familiar with in the trending feed. Maybe primal becomes the gateway drug to btc and other clients? Or maybe, those same people just stick with primal because it’s comfortable.
"Come use nostr, we're building a new system where anyone's voice can be heard as long as you already have proof of a large following elsewhere."
Whatever. Follow lists, trending lists, recommended follow lists…….whatever. Have at it. I’ll stay in my corner.
do you think the bias is towards just influencers or influencers who are also using primal as their most used client?
I think there’s a group of “recommended follows” who are on the list because they use it and promote it. I also think there are those who get “boosted” into the trending list because they have large followings in the space of btc and social media.
hmm, rather odd i never really use primal, so i'm foreign to a lot of this but it's some great insight 💜
I don’t either. It’s not really that odd. People gain followers from being on a list, they then promote the platform/client. It’s a mutual agreed upon arrangement where both parties gain. Free market. It is what is and people won’t care or don’t seem to care. Which is fine, but we can still point it out.
yeah, but why not be open about it? nostriches appreciate transparency a ton, and i think there should be an opt-in/opt-out solution for that
Because we can just use another client and they can do whatever they want. They aren’t going after us, they are going after the mainstream users who will just use their default settings and feeds.
Because there is profit to be made, and these large accounts are more interested in securing their positions of influence on nostr now while it's early than they are with giving other voices a spotlight because it will mean bigger profit for them later on.
ugh makes sense
On the one hand I think how it makes sense from a purely business standpoint. On the other hand I think how it is hypocritical to some of the ideals preached.
Ten points for ever thought leader with a @primal address.
hmm, interesting
My “points” are a shitcoin fyi
My concern with Primal is that it could end up being too much like just another Twitter in too many ways. Improvements over Twitter: our identities are cryptographic key pairs that are not controlled by primal, and the notes are stored on relays that are not controlled by primal. Same as the old Twitter: monetization by advertisements. Which means primal is going to end up building algos that reward people with high follower counts, at the expense of everyone else. Wait a second - did I say “end up?” They’re already doing it. Screw that, I say. https://prettygoodproject.substack.com/p/the-pretty-good-way-to-calculate
i don't think that's their concern that's their aim
Precisely I don’t think we’ll have a truly decentralized web until our digital tools are themselves managed by our web of trust, rather than by digital stewards like primal or standards committees or repository managers. Spoken languages are truly decentralized. Who decided the string of syllables we use in English for pencil? No one. Everyone. The question itself is kinda silly. We need to respond the same way to the question: who decided the json schema we all use for a nostr note? Currently the answer is: fiatjaf. I look forward to the day when the answer is: what a silly question. No one is in charge.
Don’t forget about their caching service. Seems pretty optimal for the inclusion of advertising.
Yup. I can’t help wondering how long it will be before they make a list of “approved” relays. Which will get whittled down to a handful of relays, all controlled by primal.
Probably not too far off.
How many people in the nostr community see this coming and appreciate its significance, I wonder?
I believe this is apparent to most people here now, because we are early adopters and are familiar with the underlying structures/tech. However, I believe the next big wave will be completely unaware and will simply use the default settings and default relays etc run by the most “influential” clients.
I really think that corporations, news agencies, and governments will not use nostr until they can completely control their narratives, which will mean complete control of their relays and whitelists of npubs that have write permissions to their relays.
They will want to maintain control of the digital stewards. Which is why we must put stewardship of our digital tools of communication into the hands of our WoT. Fix the language, fix the world.
I think they will have their relays and we will have ours. I think the key will lay in our ability to educate people about how their “freedom of speech” is not really free. I don’t know if we will be able to do it, but it’s worth a try.
I would love everyone in the world to become passionate about freedom of speech, but we cannot assume that will ever happen. We need to build tools that people will use bc they work, not bc they align with a worldview. Example: Peter schiff hates btc ideologically but has accepted it on his website for years bc it works. That sort of thing.
Agreed!