Oddbean new post about login | logout Here’s where I’m at. There’s not a doubt in my mind that god is real. Still not really a fan of organized religion though.
Jesus decentralized shiz. Study Christ.
It seems to be the only large-scale alternate way to unite people besides statism Not sure if that’s a good thing though
LOVE is the answer to every question. Start there and everything else gets easier. Specifically: Agape love 💜 https://image.nostr.build/13693eb08668484fb3dd6e813fa113a34d2168e368f9e26f27914af433d68fd7.jpg
Oh yeah, perceived love is the glue in both statism & religion. They’re like love-extension technologies, in theory
Maybe start by loving yourself that way. This doesn’t have to include any relationship with any god nor religion. Then you can get there with others. For me: it doesn’t mean I like everyone. Anyone who reads my posts will realize there are many things I don’t like about humanity. Loving humanity unconditionally is another matter.
& there lies the ultimate transcendence
some say that 💜
It’s funny because I spoke of all that for years on Twitter but it is what it is.
Humans are inherently flawed. Organised religions are made of humans. And sadly a religious setting is a prime breeding ground for taking advantage of and abusing people.
Always has been. World history taught us that.
Prime? How? There is no massive abuse going on
Never any abuse. Not even once in history. https://cdn.britannica.com/06/93906-050-8EB41187/illustration-reproduction-Huitzilopochtli-offering-priest-Aztec-Codex.jpg
Ah I thought you meant now
I mean always.
Organized religion is nothing more than people getting together to praise the Lord, study scripture, and help each other grow spiritually.
I don’t think Jesus was either. John 2:15 NLT [15] Jesus made a whip from some ropes and chased them all out of the Temple. He drove out the sheep and cattle, scattered the money changers' coins over the floor, and turned over their tables.
Organized anything is usually bad.
Honor Jehovah with your possessions and with the firstfruits of all your fruits; 10. Then your barns will be filled with abundance, and your winepresses will overflow with new wine. This verse mentions the importance of honoring God with finances, recognizing that everything you have comes from Him.
I’d challenge you to dive in and read the Bible again with an open mind. Discounting the entire church after being turned off from past experiences would be like being introduced to Bitcoin through the taproot wizards and writing the whole movement off as a scam. The church is far from perfect, but I believe that God still uses us for his glory in spite of our sin and imperfections. I promise you there’s a church out there for you that’s probably completely different than the one you grew up in (I think I remember you telling Saylor once that you were from a Southern Baptist background). Also, this is all coming from a place of love because you’ve been a huge part of my bitcoin journey ✊
but why? Why is it necessary to be in organised religion if you’re perfectly happy with the God you’ve found already? To me, the need to gather in a specific place to worship suggests a sub-100% belief that needs regular top-ups, or a belief that the scope of God is limited to places of worship and the people who worship there
The scope of God is definitely not limited to places of worship or the people who worship there. I do believe that he created us to live in community with each other in order to grow in our faith and to help share the gospel. The formation of the church in Acts pretty clearly lays that out, and the rest of the New Testament is mostly Paul chastising the different churches in Greece and Asia about falling back into “organized religion” tendencies. We weren’t meant to live life alone, which coincidentally is a major reason we’re all here on Nostr
My background is Irish catholic actually
Gotcha. Even more organized and cold then. I’ve got a long catholic tradition on both sides of my family that my parents broke away from. Ephesians and Galatians are short books but straight up bangers that address a lot of the same issues that the Catholic Church has today with rigid religious requirements
77 Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
Rather than organized religion, I think of it as Christianity done in community. I attend an independent evangelical church and it is a blessing in my life, not a set of rules (I don’t do well with man’s rules😂). I believe God always existed as the father son and Holy Spirit living in relationship. So as people designed in God’s image, we are meant to live in relationship. Church is just a place where we find the benefit of meeting, sharing and worshiping in community with other believers.
Ditto
Who created god? What do you mean by god? I have yet to hear any logical argument for god. It all ends up relying on faith and mysticism.
One person's flaw is another's feature.
Idk what you mean
I get the impression you find the combination of lack of rigor and unanswered questions to be uncompelling, but for reasons I can't relate to, some consider that to be a feature rather than a bug.
Reason over faith all the time for me, that’s for sure
People need a value structure. That's why we needed god. The abstract ideal. Now we also have bitcoin
A philosophy based on reason and logic is superior IMO. I like Objectivism
Unfortunately we are emotional beings with a monkey brain. Human's need to deify something. Its either a religion or god, which gives us a structure how to act morally. Or it's a harming ideology or person. Deifying humans is the worst we can do. The 20th century makes it verifiable! So If we start to deify something that gives us the wrong incentives, we see chaos. That's happening all around the world right now! Bitcoin is a value structure/ideology/ belief system that gives us the right incentives! #Slayyourheros #abandonideology
I recommend checking out Objectivism. An extremely consistent philosophy that places man’s life as his standard of value. Man’s happiness as the moral purpose of his life.
What arguments for God’s existence have you examined in depth and found inadequate?
All
https://image.nostr.build/127f0fdb94176d050f37611e105565add1240d9e66b71c8b623b291c055510c1.jpg
Yes, Christians should make a positive case for belief in God. Not sure why your meme has someone yelling something dumb. Looks like a strawman argument poorly articulated. And, atheists should make a case for what they believe. Are you claiming to know there is no God or are you agnostic?
It definitely takes a cheap shot at religious people with the yelling 😅 I tend to agree with Leonard Peikoff on agnostic vs. atheism. I really don’t care though. It is implied that if there is evidence of something I once thought of as impossible I would change my mind. Being an atheist to me is saying that based on all the facts of the universe I know, I have no reason to believe in god. http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/agnosticism.html
Ever considered inviting Mormon missionaries over for a discussion or reading the Book of Mormon?
I have spoken to Mormon missionaries before and I live around a lot of Mormons and I love them as neighbors, they’re all very good people. That said there’s precisely zero chance I’d ever convert to Mormonism.
Zero, huh? 😏
Nobody converts to Mormonism. One only becomes converted to Jesus Christ.
Just have to figure out the way to Him, https://image.nostr.build/8c1a7ef85c2484a86bd7ddbe4e98f9de175a90ee63539a86464a6f1db58cc196.jpg
Cool. Churches tend to function like shitcoins. So be weary. God is everywhere if you’re quiet. Good luck!
My 25 yo Daughter died in 2021 of Fentanyl Poisoning. Since then I have been listening to NDE (Near Death Experience) Podcasts and there are 2 main sites to read many user submitted stories in text format. After over 1000 stories I'm convinced most of these people at least believe their stories. There are so many experiences but not one of them the same. Some of them say organized religions were co-opted by man for control. Many atheists have seen Jesus. Not everyone sees God or Jesus. It seems a general theme that love is the only thing that matters. There are a much smaller % of stories that are called "Challenging Experiences. The most primary example of this would be the story of a professor named Howard Storm. He was an atheist and had a bad experience to start with but it ends up good. Ill include a link to his story if your interested. People have a "Life Review in most stories, id say. They say they can see it from their perspective but also from the person there interacting withs perspective and down the line how their actions affected others. They say they actually feel the emotions of others as if they are actually them. Also almost all stories say that communication is done telepathically. Your thoughts can be heard by others. There is NO miscommunication. You understand completely the entire message being conveyed. A doctor once told me, if all the parts of a grandfather clock were loose in a big box floating in space, would that clock ever assemble itself? Even in a million years? No i don't believe it would. How much more complicated is DNA, and all the building blocks of life. Something had to start this world spinning. There is to much there to just be made up. But is it just the dying brains reaction as some believe or is something more profound happening. Ill find out for sure one day but for now..... Id recommend the following sources for anyone interested in more info on this. Text based stories https://nderf.org ( go to NDE stories tab) https://iands.org/ndes/nde-stories/iands-nde-accounts.html Favorite podcasts Beyond death Jeff Mara Podcast (has other subjects as well but I only listen to NDE stuff) Lets Talk near death NDE Podcast (Mormon guy but he doesn't preach ) NDE Radio with LEE Witing The other side NDE Round Trip Death Howard Storm Story https://vimeo.com/215562283 If you have had an experience you can submit it to IANDS or Nderf.org They have a questionnaire after you write your story. It has helped many dealing with the fresh loss of a loved one to hear that they didn't just blink out to nothing. Some people tell others and don't get believed or think they are alone, but they estimate 10-20% of people who come close or actually die and come back. So that's millions of people who have had this experience. I'm also convinced that God is real.
Ty for this post. 🫂
How did you reach the point of no doubt about God’s reality? Can you share more?
I have found my connection to god as well and it has nothing to do with religion. I think it is important to have faith in something and humans tend to mess that up when we label it. I think it's a personal journey.
Words are a fraught with ambiguity. What is God to you? I've heard many words spoken of God that indicates we each hold a different meaning behind the word. I think generally people fall into either 2 categories: - God is an entity - God is the all that is 1 group sees God as a supreme being, seperate from themselves. The other sees God in everything & everyone. Some use the word in both ways & don't see the distinction.
Both have to be true. For God to be the supreme being, he is by definition all that is.
The God that seperates itself as an entity, is a fraction of the all that is. That God is no more or less God, than you or I.
An infinite being can divide itself infinitely and never be diminished. The logos of being wears all personae.
Hard to be proven but very easy to feel and experience
Healthy place to be if you ask me
What about unicorns?
The more you’re convinced of His realness, the more organized you’ll get.
The end of the rabbit hole is spirituality, whatever that means for you the individual. Those that haven’t yet reached this destination have taken a wrong turn. https://m.primal.net/Kpcq.jpg
Its essence is within us. The best way to demonstrate our connection to god is through our character and our ability to manifest. The closer you are to god - the crazier stuff you manifest and the more you refine your character. One doesn’t work without the other, if you just have great character but never flex your manifestation muscles then you are missing out one of our greatest divine powers. If you only manifest mind blowing things but have shitty character then you probably don’t have gods true graces and end up being narcissistic, ungrateful, etc.
god is a crutch for people who fail to acknowledge that we are no better or worse than any other biological life form. People need to feel special, to feel like they have purpose and creating a higher power solves this. I look at it like this, with all of the horrible things that happen to people, it’s difficult to believe that a benevolent and omnipotent being is sitting back watching this happen. And if he is, then that’s not a god I want to know. Tragedy strikes and people run directly to prayer. well, if there is a god, then he’s the one who brought tragedy to you in the first place, so why would you pray to him for help. TL;DR religion is nuts.
I hear you... have felt that way most of my life. Then oddly started aligning with conservative Christian values (pro-family, farming/self reliance, anti-perversion in schools, 2nd amendment, etc). Then as I watched our cities/society going to hell and our govt overflowing with sin and corruption, covid hit and I found myself directly in their camp. I would not call myself a Christian but can appreciate their values. I am curious to see where this journey will take me.
Only trust scripture. Even our pastor says that to us, if he says something that doesn't wash with scripture we are to call him out on it. Jesus called the Pharisees a pit of vipers for a reason.
the scriptutes were written by men though and then translated a ton of times , and then people had literal wars over their interpretation. so I'm not so sure
We have the original Greek Gospels, so the "translated many times" thing, isn't a thing. Yes it's been translated into many languages, because contrary to what the media and government spout, Christianity isn't a white European religion. Jesus was a Jew. The earliest copies of the Bible were Ethiopian as well as one of its oldest churches. The only difference in any of the Bibles has to do with the number of books in the old testament that, say the Catholic and Protestant churches use, but the gospels (New Testament) are all the same 27 books used by every sect. Also a vast majority of wars were not caused by religion and don't get me started in the crusades, that was a response to centuries of Muslim aggression. I'm not saying that bad people haven't used religion for evil, but by definition they are no longer Christians. https://m.primal.net/KqTY.jpg
The Tao Te Ching has interesting commentary on ritual, and thus in context can refer to organized religion. It places the Tao at the top (basically the source of everything), and then has a hierarchy of goodness, kindness, justice, and then ritual. Ritual is basically what's left after its drained of its depth, and people go through motions that are now quite distanced from the original purpose or context. https://m.primal.net/KpnH.png
Rituals can help create a strong sense of community as they often serve to bring people into contact with each other. Think of Christian rituals in the church, Muslim prayer rituals at the mosque, the month of fasting, the pilgrimage to Mecca etc. There is a reason that religions especially the Abrahamic ones continue to have such an attraction...
so you're 100% convinced that something you can't see or hear is real.. that's a little crazy, no?
"God" is the universe, and we're all a part of it... https://i.nostr.build/fwUYM8BGOvopg72B.jpg
I used to be seeking for the spiritual truth, most of my life. I read eastern spiritual books from Buddhism and Hinduism. I explored the new age religion and mysticism, “hidden” knowledge. I thought the Bible was altered by man and not the answer. Then a friend recommended the show The Chosen, it opened me up to it, along with an old friend who became Christian answering some questions of mine. My grandparents were Christian, so I respected all of this and read the new testament of the Bible for the first time, starting with the gospels. Slowly over time, asking many questions, consistently reading the Bible, and praying to God, I’ve found the truth. Jesus is real! I encourage you to read the New Testament, starting with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I recommend starting with John. Pray to God to show you the truth. Big love man!
Is it enough to believe that God exists? - Psalms 55:6-9
Not really a fan of it either. Kinda ruins the whole personal relationship with God. His word does tell us though, to fully grow in maturity we need to be connected to a church. My note would encourage one to visit a number of churches. Many churches are soft and water down the gospel, so those are not worth your time or your energy. There are some good ones though they don’t have neon signs. For some deep rabbit hole on theology, this sermon series is worthy of your time: Phil Kayser’s Revelation Project https://m.primal.net/KqFS.png
Sorry here’s the link if you do YT, https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_n8U-TgzmESsC0j9FX4mdh6uDsYfCbl8&si=3UJtBlm8DUhhtgSd
Find a good, small church. I have a friend that cut hair and has 4 kids. One was an infant at the time. She was driving them home from school and fell asleep/passed out. Wrecked into trees and it tore her left arm off out the window from a tree. She said she had a voice telling her to make a tourniquet. Her oldest boys ran to a neighbors probably a half a mile to a mile. The neighbor at the time was Clayton King a pastor. The ambulance came someone had a cooler and put her arm in it. Put ice on it. She was taken to a local hospital. Because of weather they couldn’t air lift her to a trauma hospital. They drove her 50+ miles to the trauma hospital. As a church we came together and prayed had probably 20-30 people on a Friday night. It was an amazing experience. Somehow they were still able to reattach her arm. She has used of her arm but not fully 15 years later. It was a miracle. Everything lined up for her to be able to reattach her arm. Much less that she didn’t bleed out from losing her arm and God telling her to wrap her arm with the seat belt to not bleed out.
This thread is amazing! It didn't devolve into a battle of atheist vs. believers. People expressed different beliefs. Some different. One person expressed doubts. It's so civilized here.
God (YHWH) is very real and His sacrifice and resurrection is also true. That is the good news! On the churches and bad religion, you are not the first to be cautious and concerned about religion, 6 out of the 7 letters written by Paul to the churches are about bad religion! And it will get worse as the world religions come together under a false banner and antichrist. Make sure you have a relationship with Him (God) as trust in Him and His guidance is what will get you through and move you towards the Kingdom of God. God bless.
God made the Earth in six days and rested on the 7th. I have a hard time with this one. I think there is no doubt that there is bullshit mixed in with the teachings, but we were given a brain and meant to use it. Maybe this was done by design.
Hi American Hodl, I hope you are well. I wrote an article today about my time in the Bitcoin community and subsequent conversion to Catholicism. Perhaps you will find it helpful. God bless. https://hodlwave.medium.com/into-and-out-of-the-bitcoin-rabbit-hole-32ea9c752c75
According to Jesus, there are only two roads to choose from, and one of those roads leads to death - Matthew 7:13
