Oddbean

"I don't want to see that note on my feed." - Scroll on. "I don't want to see that npub on my feed." - Mute user "I don't want others to see that note on their feed." - Report content "I don't want that type of content to ever exist on any feed anywhere!" - ... Then what you want is for the Internet to be shut down? "I demand that everyone see my content!" - Mute user I love Nostr.

Let me be clear, I don't believe in harassment, and I don't believe the 1st Amendment in the US Constitution gives anyone the right to throw something into the faces of people who don't want to see it. I support @rabble in his quest to give people tools to build the kind of feeds that they want to see. Creating a reporting tool that looks at PUBLIC posts and then does something with them is what this development platform is all about. It doesn't take down the post, it doesn't subtract to anyone's experience unless they choose to take action. At this early stage, doing this with the existing tools that we find in most apps is easy enough. But when we have actual trolls on here, or people building bots that interact with the relay layer and try to push content like ads or pull content like algorithms, we need tools to prevent them from taking away our own agency to control our feed and how the communities that we build and interact with perceive our posts and content. I want Nostr to be for everyone, ESPECIALLY people that I disagree with and who may disagree with me. Because at least having that level playing field of being able to post what I want is going to be there for me and everyone else. And we should all be willing to take responsibility for and be held accountable for whatever it is that we post. I don't want this to be a limited community where only people who handle communication in one specific way are welcome. Nobody should want that. I've read the back and forth, I can see both/all sides, and I made my post above because ... Well, because it just became a tennis match and the communication part of things sort of fizzled out. Who stopped listening to the other side first? I'm not sure. If you're just joining Nostr, build your own network, your own feed. No algorithms. No advertisements. No corporations. Just people being people, whatever results that brings.

No. You never addressed the question posed which was why would you choose a centralized approach in a decentralized environment? You had the choice. You centralized the tools. The tools are filters and snitches in part so we now have a censorship setup. Address the issue. Don't pontificate. Don't give an arrogant aside. Why this approach? You had the choice so just explain why distributed tools in a distributed environment was eschewed? That is the crux. The rest is fluff and misdirection. You are making this worse

Why is it that you think that content reports like this is a centralized approach? Is it perhaps because you've chosen an app which centralizes things that it feels centralized to you? This is a design decision from Amethyst that shows you all reports as posts and replies to your feed. You're choosing to pull this in. Nobody's pushing these notes to a big public relay, or in to your client. There are many bots out there, you're choosing to care about them. No other apps on Nostr show random people's reports. What about a bot which looks at content it finds in it's part of the nostr network and makes notes when it finds offensive language with content warnings is centralized? What about it is censorship? Do i need to send you a dictionary?

bro. dont play word games. this is dumb. you just are getting a little pathetic now. Iys like you have fingers in ears and are stomping lalalal I CANT HEAR YO lalalala its childish. There is nothing to gain. The more you talk the more you reveal yourself. I hope you code better than you human.

What centralized tool? I'm not trying to be arrogant here, I'm just almost totally ignorant about what you are talking about. There are three layers here. Protocol, Relay and Client. If someone wants to build something at the client level, there has to be something at the relay level that gives the code the hooks to grab. And that means there has to be something at the protocol layer that allows those hooks to exist. Just because one programmer wants to add those hooks and functionality to a client doesn't mean that others are required to do so, it's an open system. If you don't want to use functionality that someone else puts into the infrastructure layer, don't. It's that simple. But you can't stop code from developing and changing in ways that you might not like in an open system. If you do, then what you are doing is forking it and splitting the community into the silos and gates that we are all trying to break out of in the first place. I am NOT a coder. I'm using language and metaphors to the best of my ability to express my views on things that I honestly have a surface level understanding of at best. If I'm being a total nuube and not understanding your concern, then try again to explain it. Because I'm not seeing it.

Its not on the client. It is partly on the relay layer. He knows this so did not argue the point. Also free speech means people speak back. Crucible of ideas makes ideas better but bruises egos. We know who cares more about which by the reaction arc. This fella was dishonest, arrogant, dismissive and wrong.

This is how I see it: "I'm going to put you on a list based on arbitrary criteria which I may or may not share, I won't tell you that I'm indirectly monitoring everything you say, and then I'm going to tell people you are a bad person with hateful ideas and suggest they ignore you by default. Since I don't agree with you, I'm going to tell people you are spreading dangerous misinformation. By doing so, I am nudging people into my way of thinking under the guise of keeping them safe and making their experience better. Even though people are free to make these decisions for themselves, I know damn well that most people will never go and verify whether or not you should be on my list, or if what I have claimed about you is even true. I also know that if I have hundreds or thousands of people on this list, virtually no one will spend the time checking. I will also associate you with well known trouble makers so that it adds credibility to my list, and by the time you figure out what I have been doing, the damage will have already been done." This isn't a helpful tool. This is how all traditional social media looks nowadays and what I presume most people here have been trying to get away from.

That's a story that I can get behind, spinning the tale in a way that requires us to actually think instead of just react. Thank you. I believe the issue is that most people don't know what they are trying to get away from, or at least they can't define it very well so while we might be willing to try new things, we don't like it when something goes too far out of our comfort zone. And the corporate silos have done a very good job of defining our comfort zone for us whether we knew it or not, or liked it or not. I think the lists will exist no matter how much we protest against them. Because there will be demand out there for something to keep the illusion of walls and silos so that people can keep their comfort zones intact. And if that's the way they want to see the world, that's on them and the developers who cater to them. But there will always be the "rest of the internet" so if and when people see the walls of their holodeck, they can call for the exit and we will be here waiting for them. Whatever tools that are built, I hope that they are transparent. To the point that we can plug our npub into a search field and see every flag, every mute, every list and claimed association. That way we can understand where we are and why some people are having trouble seeing notes or whatever. And so we can challenge them. I'll acknowledge that these lists are going to be centralized in some way, they have to be. But by creating them, the programmers and relay managers should be identified as people to contact, not wizards in ivory towers, untouchable.

It’s open source and all the published report events are public. The code is here: https://github.com/planetary-social/cleanstr You can get the reports with any if the nostr cli tools or reports viewers web apps. This is transparent and decentralized. If you have freedom to publish on nostr then others have freedom to publish as well. Unless what you want is freedom for yourself and not other people.

Sounds like you’re using a buggy Nostr client. Try a different or change which relays you’re using. Nobody but you can change your contact list. Maybe find the bug in the software you’re using and fix it. The vast majority of nostr apps are open source and welcome contributions.