Oddbean new post about login | logout When I see a intellectual people NOT understand Bitcoin, what is often preventing them from “getting it”, is a deeply held, core belief that the world is spiraling out of control and can’t get better. Because of this pessimistic conviction, it’s almost like it’s impossible for them to wrap their head around it. It’s a very strange yet persistent theme.
It’s because of cowardice. It takes courage to believe things can get better. Bitcoiners have courage. https://image.nostr.build/f07d0e7362fcd1e13f664cc4d676e934b86dbea37d5bb6f2f8b66122fd58ca0d.jpg
So true, 💯
My biggest disappointment : Assange fleeing right back to Australia. Right back into a prison cell.
Where else is he going to go?
El Salvador
El Salvador for one.
What’s your hypothesis as to why they don’t want to let that belief go?
I think some people are just pessimists at their core. Bitcoin is for optimistic truth seekers. If you think the world is going to hell and a hand basket and there’s no way a solution could ever solve that…well then it’ll be impossible to SEE bitcoin.
I agree that bitcoin is optimism 💯. I think the people who don’t get bitcoin have a multitude of reasons why they don’t get it. Pessimism is an attempt to protect oneself, and to remain vigilant to problems. Also, some of these people have gotten rich from the fiat system, and change is very hard. We might be able to convert some of the pessimists if we shine light on their pessimism. I believe anyone can change (but they have to be motivated to).
Are the general optimists in the world just “content” and oblivious? I’m not sure the only obstacles exist D2 pessimism. Some of this could be mass conditioned depression in the specific area of money. It’s is also driven harden into the minds of the West that $USD is absolute like gravity… hope only lies in the lottery tickets of life… “Finish in second place every single year because your fans will say 'Wow, we got a shot. We're in it!' But there's always the carrot left." - Jerry Reinsdorf, White Sox Owner… that’s how you condition a population, in this instance - the White Sox fanbase… @jackmallers - you had to have heard this before?
“Mass conditioned depression” would imply that individuals have no autonomy or ability to think independently of what big media is saying. Doesn’t make sense because how would you explain individuals that don’t? Eg Preston, Lyn, Lavish, etc
ChatGPT came up with 9 reasons to be pessimistic. Here’s 6 of them https://image.nostr.build/d367b3ebcd970504763910385bbdcab3819c32389d2d03d8fae84f61d6891dd2.jpg
This is the headwind I’ve come up against while trying to orange pill the Church ⛪️ The Church is hopeful with regard to “spiritual”/etherial things, but not necessarily with things that have a “worldly” affiliation (to include the world 🌍 itself). I think the most significant shortcoming of the Church right now is our inability to SEE the significance in the physical world 🌎 I’ve written on this (geared towards Church leadership) if you’re interested. It’s essentially a parallel between the canonical Exodus story and the “Modern Exodus” we’re in now. 🤝 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BZjJWZqCuvjyRZBQq1fRP1Okddt6_OgusyibCZzHRnc/edit
With those around me I've noticed that it's usually as simple as "Bitcoin is crypto and crypto is a scam". It's something they just 'know' so there's no thinking past it. I don't consider myself very active in the Bitcoin scene, but using it as savings helped me with my down payment towards my house, so whenever the Bitcoin price goes up significantly that's when I see a hint of interest from others which eventually wanes.
Their ego can't handle that the "crypto bros" got it right, and so they have to continue to believe that it's stupid
This really rang true for the author of the mandibles. She nails the problem but just couldn't grok btc. Must be incredibly depressing for her
She's been on Citadel Dispatch. Plebs donated 1 Bitcoin. I think she's doing fine.
what are your thoughts on the elasticity arguement making the rounds?
Most either (a) think they missed out financially, and/or (b) only ever hear and see negative mainstream coverage and value the opinions of their like-minded peers over new information from the edge. You can be very intelligent and highly educated and still not appreciate or understand the problems it was created to solve.
The water in the pot has not gotten hot enough for some of the frogs
The smartest frogs have already jumped out. https://image.nostr.build/442de32672abced59e0d5488a8558d4b7b1d719bfff41df0e8e65852d3f805e6.gif
In internet speak that's referred to as being black pilled. I run into it a lot. Without an underlying sense of hope or faith the possibility of situational improvement becomes impossible.
Psychologically its referred to as learned helplessness. A good concept to be aware of.
I think the main thing holding people back is that you need some broad acquaintance with a bunch of things to even gain a foothold toward understanding BTC. This includes: fiat creation, treasury debt, Keynesian & Austrian economics, coding, & public key encryption. I was lucky enough to have at least some understanding of all these things before I saw Andreas Antonopoulos appear on the Joe Rogan Experience, so I was able to connect the dots immediately.
I have very wear understanding of what you just named and still get it. Just understanding Bitcoin basics isn't hard at all, takes an hour or two of logical discussion and honest interest. To me these people in the note are maybe intellectual, but rather ignorant and not very intelligent. Everybody buys BTC at the price he deserves👀
I’ve experienced this same pessimism and I feel it comes from an expectation that it can’t work because those in power would never let it It’s an anti-agency view that there need to be permission instead of just being able to do shit and solve problems
world spiraling out of control to the extent it is right now, that even those who are making it spiral on purpose desperately to try to fuck with people's minds to control them, is a sign of a new way coming. the new way is Bitcoin and decentralization. The more they push, the sooner will be resolved.
Combination of Confirmation bias and anchoring bias usually, of if they’re brining tradfi knowledge with them, then it could be ultracrepidarianism. For the latter I wrote a thing… https://open.substack.com/pub/sherlockhodls/p/bitcoin-makes-polymaths
I agree, although mostly I would say this applies to those on the right politically. Those on the left seem to be content with the way things are going.
How about you? Do you still support Lummis?
Interesting, I find the opposite. I find that it is a deeply held core belief in the existing monetary system that they have taken advantage of their whole lives. It’s almost as if they accept the money is broken it will be too earth shattering for them. I’ve had multiple people tell me “the monetary system ‘works for me’ so why would I want to change it?” They’re delusionally ignorant to the rest of the world.
Well... Its devastating, to start to comprehend the magnitude of the destruction caused by fiat money. Hypothetically you could estimate the number of lives destroyed or lives that didn't happen because of the corrupt fiat system. Like, the US gov counterfeights (spelling?) $6 trillion in 2020 - the resultant inflation pushes x number people into homelessness or drugs and x number of people can't get jobs because prices are all wrong and x number people don't start a family and so x number of new people are never born, and then secondary effects like mass immigration and cultural genocide perpetrated by governments effectively replacing the native people... You can start to see that every government action has negative effects that ripple forward through time in a quadratically expanding wave. Its seeing the Holocaust in real time. I can't blame someone for not wanting to see it.
Exactly, I think it was the guy swan who articulated it very eloquently when he said the $6T print basically stole the life’s work equivalent of 6 million people.
I didn't know he said that.. Good! Probably worse than that, though
I’m pretty sick of the pervasiveness of nihilism to be honest. Funny enough I hear things like “everything is going to shit anyway, just burn it down” a lot from “#goodvibesonly” type people. It is an immediate flag that I probably don’t care to get to know someone more. If you’re not doing anything to improve your own condition, complain about it all the time, and just live a hedonistic life without ever trying to improve anything for yourself or anyone else… we’re just not compatible.
Hmm, you gave me a new angle to think about something... Hedonism without nihilism. Cuz the nihilism is really what makes hedonism so abhorrent. Maybe hedonism without nihilism is equivalent to love? Grace?
I like a bit of hedonism. I enjoy vices and having fun. But I balance it with hard work, learning, growth, helping. I feel it’s a pretty good balance. I am proud of myself and can let loose and have fun when it’s time.
Before bitcoin, I just called myself a hedonist. I was sick of pretending not to enjoy the things I enjoy - which is women and good conversation around good drinks. But that came from a place of hopelessness, and entirely lacked the balance of responsibility. Then bitcoin ripped open my brain, and God stepped into that resultant aperture, and I'm not nihilistic anymore.
Their current fiat wealth is inhibiting them.
It’s true, even when you’ve explained it to death, they just can’t accept something that contradicts their pessimism
I wonder if the pessimism might be due to depression from malnutrition. Could be a possibility.
It comes from unlimited sources
Perhaps. I guess I haven't thought about it enough. 🤔
It’s a daily struggle distancing myself from that bad energy…
Gotta surround yourself with the right people and do the right things. Always listen to your conscience, aim upward, and find the answers. Easier said than done but if you can remove temptation and build habits, you'll be rewarded and you'll love doing it. Though I'm just preaching here, I'm not putting forth a tangible, public example.
"The world...can't get better" ...presumably because "now is better than before", no matter how bad now actually becomes. The hardest part about orange pilling is breaking this dogma nostr:nevent1qqsv77mqet40wcy83x4zz0ywf6p5ha7e6c85ftnavkyt7kycykhcrugpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qs5yq6wadwrxde4lhfs56gn64hwzuhnfa6r9mj476r5s4hkunzgzqxpqqqqqqzy2pml3
Any relation to one of @MartyBent's latest pods? This guy was such a doomer he couldn't see the benefit that bitcoin could bring to the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFcmHDb1L7g
The Key to achieving change lies in an individuals ability to redesign the perception of his world (constructivism). The longer you built on a world before #btc, the harder to change. Additionally, a strong ego might limit your ability to adapt.
They are a strong cocktail; mostly fanacially illiterate, part ignorant, with a dash of arrogance, and a twist of cowardice for that zing.
They're aren't actual intellectuals. Seeing the value in something new requires humility - the ability to silence the ego and accept the unknown. A real intellectual should be able to see somewhat ahead of most other people - that's the test, can you see what others don't. They are pursuing the image of being an intellectual, but they aren't the real thing.
isn't about not understanding, it's about understanding too much. Where the value comes, who is behind it, coded prices, scripted stories around it, 100 year plans, short term agendas. I just cannot walk the paths shepards want me to walk.
Yuppy elite.
Although it's frustrating to see this happen type of dismissal, it is an important distinguishing feature of paradigm shifts. If everyone could see the new paradigm coming, then it would already be here and the opportunity we have as bit coiners for wealth redistribution into the new paradigm would not exist. It's a blessing, not a curse.
True but I do think some of them do have a few valid concerns. Correct or not, we have to have easy ways to reassure them.
What concerns have you heard on your side?
I mean, we've all heard some of the same concerns. Concerns over the "hackability" of the network, the lack of understanding surrounding self-sovereignty, the fact that you aren't FDIC insured, the way you have to get a cold wallet if you want to get serious about Bitcoin... I know the answers to all of those but even intellectuals are concerned about that and I can't blame them because the responses are usually just "Bitcoin is superior", "Bitcoin is unconfiscatable" and so forth. Again, I agree with statements like those but to an outsider, it really does just sound like a cultish ponzi scheme. Then, there are also the concerns surrounding the ways you obtain Bitcoin. I'm pro-BTC but there aren't any good ways to obtain it if you don't have friends who are willing to pay you in Bitcoin, and that has kept me from buying any for myself. Either you surrender your privacy AND risk your identity by buying from CEXes, you risk your money by buying from DEXes, or you pay a huge fee buying from an ATM. At the end of the day, no matter how great this technology is, I do believe that we -- as a community -- need to be ready to answer skeptics patiently and with proper information rather than "You're not bullish enough", "Bitcoin fixes everything", "all others are s***coins" and other such vague/cultish/goofy statements. We don't win people over by making them feel like idiots. Not every skeptic is a troll, and unfortunately, I've seen so much ridicule toward people who genuinely might have been interested before then.
I’m not too engaged in the twitter stuff day to day but I’ve found that the luck I’ve had with getting people to understand bitcoin, is not getting into bitcoin right away, but for them to understand why we use dollars today instead of gold, why did we stop using gold, gold’s monetary properties that made society, not governments choose gold and how bitcoin’s value, like gold, comes from its monetary properties. It’s hard for people to understand bitcoin and the why of #bitcoin if they don’t 1st get a sense of how we got here. I agree with everything you said above though. I believe if our friends give us the time of day, we gotta convey how we got to this point first within about 5 minutes and then the last 5 minutes break down why bitcoin is so important, adding the human rights element so that you’re not just talking number go up is also important.
Yes, I agree, that approach is what got me interested in Bitcoin. Previously, I only saw it as an "investment" opportunity until it started going up and down. I didn't realize how freeing it can be. I agree entirely about how we need to be able to quickly summarize it. An elevator pitch, as it were.
Quickly summarize in the most calm cool way possible even though we’re excited as hell to discuss it haha.
Absolutely, and I totally get that a lot of Bitcoiners and Nostr users genuinely are just really passionate about the tech. I'm sure the trolling comes from a minority of the community, and maybe some of them don't even realize they're acting the way they are. I just think that the easier we make this stuff for people, the quicker we'll start seeing something closer to mass adoption. There's a lot of skepticism in the world of blockchain (rightfully so), so keeping things difficult definitely doesn't help matters haha
Completely agree! And introducing them to wallets like Aqua for self custody, bitkey etc is the way. Bitcoin is such a major shift in how we think about everything so us being conscious that it’s going to be A LOT of information for anyone to take is so important. Little by little though, we’ll get there. I imagine bitcoin will be much bigger 15 years from now than it is today so we’ll get there.
And then there are the bitcoiners who see the same thing happen and want btc to protect themselves and family
My best friend of 30 years works for a University and can’t even follow the reasoning for bitcoin. He thinks I’ve been captured by conspiracy theories. If he acknowledges the economics of bitcoin, he will have to acknowledge. And that is a bridge too far…
#Bitcoin requires hope and elements of faith
I don't know if that's true. Though it depends which aspect of #BTC you mean. I use #bitcoin to pay for #VPN #payment and have done so for years now. I don't need faith to see its value as a fungible #currency. Likewise, I don't need faith to see the value of the #lightning network either. It's self-evident. The only aspect of the Bitcoin you need faith for is the store of value proposition and to be honest, I don't have that faith and actually i don't need it either. I don't really trust any store of value. I don't trust #Gold or the dollar or even real estate. All those things are unpredictable and also irrelevant. It's the #technology that's really important, just as it's the country that's really important with #fiat. All fiat is not equally redundant. Some are more risky than others. I still think I'm an advocate, even though I don't care whether the price rises or falls. I actually preferred the idea it would stabilise at some point and so far I've been disappointed in that respect.
Technically, yes. So does it require faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. But I've studied astronomy and so I have a lot of data that supports that theory. It also requires faith that the laws of physics will not change tomorrow. Everything, if you boil it down far enough, requires faith. Fortunately it's possible to study bitcoin deeply enough to have conviction that if the sun rises tomorrow and physics doesn't break that bitcoin will continue to thrive.
If people can not understanding the deficiencies of the fiat system, I wonder how they can be considered intellectual. For some reason, we all have to go through the school hard knocks before we come around. I was working in IT when email first started and talking email to someone I would get those glazed looks too. Now, one would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't have an email address. Bottom line is once they graduate from the school of hard knocks they'll be onboard.
I've observed that this type of negativity is simply just something that the intellectuals like to hide behind, either out of laziness or more often, to avoid being perceived as slow to grasp it, late to the game.
If we want to point the mirror in a different direction, I suspect that you could replace "Bitcoin" with "Nostr" and draw similar conclusions.
Fair enough, I am sure this is prevalent. But define "not getting it"? If I am committed and positive about the financial freedom tech stack, with Bitcoin as a major part of that, but not the only part, am I not "getting it"? To me, "Bitcoin only" feels like another limiting belief. #AskNostr
Many people don't understand bitcoin because they don't understand software. And much less open source. Bitcoin has been done by a worldwide top engineer, and it was done freely because of Satoshi personal values. It would be weird that a top arquitect did a state-of-the-art building, for free and for all. But everybody would grasp the massive value of such thing. Many have a hard time with that part. And its just the first steps, because then you need to understand the idea of unit of accounts and the concept of money to measure human behaviour.
I start to question what does ‘intellectual’ mean…well read? My circle of influence either don’t care to learn something new or they still can’t wrap their heads around investing in something they can’t physically touch or use. My kids just love it because it’s ‘digital’…we just have to wait for that generation to start creating wealth!
Perhaps fear is associated with ego and not being able to let go of it’s need to protect itself. Ego is associated with the thinking, feeling and moving centres is it not? Perhaps ego measures what is better and what is worse by its own subjective needs rather than a wish for something more universal.
I don't think the latter part is correct. What is preventing them from understanding bitcoin are deeply held, core beliefs, which are held either do to age or trust. They trust what they know and are unwilling to accept or understand something new. Also, most people are not economists and cannot fathom that something digital has subjective value.
That wouldn't make you intellectual. True intellectuals are those who look into these things, and ask questions.... They're always learning new techniques to spice up whatever it is they're doing. Simple as that.
its the exact opposite though. their core belief is the maintream narrative. intellegent people more often than not grow up in a world of theory instead of practicallity and therefore are more prone to the 'sciene propaganda' our governments spread.
If someone asks if they have 'missed the boat' on bitcoin, they have the pessimistic conviction. Trying to figure out how to wake them out of it. I think it's a slow, gentle, persistent grind.
my usual reply to them, when I’ve invested time to #ELI5 and change what could have been changed: “Just because you don't understand how #Bitcoin works, it doesn't mean that the explanation does not exist.” * inspired by #SatoshiNakamoto #quote: “If you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry.” https://m.primal.net/JwvV.jpg
Actually is not easy to grasp the concept of #Bitcoin is one doesn't really go into studying it. My self also take years and is still studying it today, but at least now I have enough confidence in #Bitcoin. This non believer will only come it after it become mass adoption, they will only rush to protect what they had but unable to fully maximise the early benefits of adopting Bitcoin. They may satisfied with just anti inflation benefits.
Or normalcy bias that assumes everything is great and will always be so.
I think either they are happy with the status quo and have no motivation to figure it out, or they're so black pilled they want everything to burn as the only method of reset and Bitcoin offering an alternative would go against the everything burns ending they've put so much time into
It's difficult to grasp Bitcoin when one's salary comes from the government. Whether value is provided or not, "money" gets printed and shared to everybody, for the sake of being on the pay-roll. But Bitcoin flips everying inside-out: one has to work hard (sometimes, more harder) in order to provide value and get paid in bitcoin. In other words, rent-seeking is far easier than standing on one's competence.
an intellectual**
Agreed. I have a nihilistic friend that asks all the right questions but only accepts doom for answers. After almost 2 epochs, he’s still not convinced. I’m probably just not very convincing. At this point, I’m full dark side. https://image.nostr.build/a22f9ae0dfe57c739f36e283f3c36470cc5a6ffe3fb1dc0b2bad1d00bf147516.jpg
I think it's as simple as the "intellectual" having his beliefs rooted in lies. nostr:note1eaakpjh27asg0zd2yy7gun5rf0man4s0gjh86evghavfsfd0s8cs9h7lyn
It’s easy to tear down. It’s much harder to build up.
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