Oddbean new post about login | logout THE TIKTOK BAN BILL GOING THROUGH CONGRESS RIGHT NOW WILL GIVE GOVERNMENT INSANE POWER TO RESTRICT SPEECH. AT THE SAME TIME SECTION 230 PROTECTIONS ARE ABOUT TO BE NEUTERED BY THE SUPREME COURT WHICH WILL ADD AN INSANE AMOUNT OF LIABILITY TO CENTRALIZED PLATFORMS - INEVITABLY INCREASING CENSORSHIP. RESTRICTING FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA HAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT AMONG OUR CORRUPT POLITICAL CLASS. NOSTR IS ABOUT TO HAVE ITS MOMENT TO SHINE. WE NEED TO BE READY FOR BILLIONS OF NEW USERS.
V for Vendetta
Would the changes to section 230 apply to relay operators?
No one is changing Section 230 provisions. Courts have held this up considerably and there is no evidence it's in danger now.
Ah, but not so fast…why wouldn’t 230 be on the chopping block??? It’s in the way of the bigger agenda. But I feel that relay operators will not suffer the blowback. Who’s creating their own ISP…because this is the next wave IMHO to address relays and their movement of info.
If the US gov will have these powers, Nostr will suffer.
Immensely
VPNs should help.
Me don’t believe in those lol Same shit Everything is online All these apps don’t mean a thing trust me sir
None at all, because it's just about forcing a sale of a division of a firm owned by a foreign adversary You can read yourself: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521/text?s=1&r=1&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22HR7521%22%7D
LET'S GOOOOO NOSTR! I HATE TIKTOK MYSELF, BUT BANNING IT IS JUST A POWER GRAB, THEY CLAIM IT'S TO PROTECT KIDS, BUT IT'S NOT. IF YOUR KIDS USE IT, IT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY NOT THE GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT THEM FROM IT!
#growNOSTR nostr:nevent1qqsxl42g8xlqeh3l946ly7tg7apl87k0t9lvrsdf7dplj0lju0r0sscpr3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmqzyqzvj9w6alhrsvtl5u6ygjkwuwg2sf5lukqskgjpuhnd6dpal0kvjqcyqqqqqqgdf70ru
If we can't stand up free speech platforms, we didn't have a chance to begin with.
give me #freedomtech of give me death
absolute. Nostr needs to establish relays and clients in various parts of the world so that it does not become a single point of obstruction. Politicians try to hide the truth.
Have you tried watching Amazon Prime via a VPN lately? Can't relays be as easily blocked by ISPs? (once Nostr starts flying high enough to ne detected by the censorship radar)
JOE BIDEN LITERALLY JOINED TIKTOK TO PROMOTE HIMSELF TO GEN Z, THIS ISN'T ABOUT PROTECTING KIDS, ITS ABOUT A POWER GRAB. IT IS A PARENTS JOB TO PROTECT THEIR KIDS! nostr:nevent1qqsxl42g8xlqeh3l946ly7tg7apl87k0t9lvrsdf7dplj0lju0r0sscpp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqzyqzvj9w6alhrsvtl5u6ygjkwuwg2sf5lukqskgjpuhnd6dpal0kvjqcyqqqqqqg2ca8ss
DONT LOSE THE PLOT 🫡
@ODELL don't care tiktok is cringe and for pedophiles. Shut it down.
Freedom is a double edge sword. It's not freedom if you want it for us but not for them @cream queen
AND THAT'S WHY I SAY IT EARLIER, IT DOES NOT ONLY GOING TO RESTRICT FREE SPEECH, BUT THEY ARE *TRYING TO BE CHINA*. nostr:nevent1qqsxl42g8xlqeh3l946ly7tg7apl87k0t9lvrsdf7dplj0lju0r0sscpr9mhxue69uhkymmnw3ezumr9vd682unfveujumn9wspzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqvzqqqqqqyk5w5hj
No, it won't happen. Nostr will grow steadily but slowly over the time. That's all. nostr:nevent1qqsxl42g8xlqeh3l946ly7tg7apl87k0t9lvrsdf7dplj0lju0r0sscpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33v4jxgwtvwqurg73cdf6hxut4dfa8yetrwd6ku6npxfuxxutddfkrqctydfjx5dne8p6kz6mpdgunxvn9dfckzu3cde6ng0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2q3qqny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysxpqqqqqqz2682rz nostr:nevent1qqsxl42g8xlqeh3l946ly7tg7apl87k0t9lvrsdf7dplj0lju0r0sscpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33v4jxgwtvwqurg73cdf6hxut4dfa8yetrwd6ku6npxfuxxutddfkrqctydfjx5dne8p6kz6mpdgunxvn9dfckzu3cde6ng0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2q3qqny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysxpqqqqqqz2682rz
Gives power to ban websites also as I understand. So many clients could be affected and Relays I assume. Surely there will be a way to get around these laws. Vpns, Tor? F Droid for app downloads. How do people in China get around govt internet bans technically doeaking?
It does none of that. It's a bill to force a sale. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7521/text?s=1&r=1&q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22HR7521%22%7D
Have you read this? Section G3B reads to me as if it can apply to a website as I suggested, ie "covered company" which includes websites as per their definition controlled by a foreign adversary. What about what I said is incorrect?
that is a definitional clause to explain what the forced divestiture applies to. The bill mentions ByteDance and TikTok specifically, “covered company” is the legal nomenclature per the US code. Any attempt to go beyond TikTok would be a direct constitutional challenge
say what you will about Tiktok. I find banning it is dangerous and shouldn't be up to governments to decide its fate. This is no different than China banning US apps.
Centralized fiat systems always self destruct.
https://image.nostr.build/574dc350fe72039d79f6e5f81eec0ffb482741ae437171eedae2f98b2ae12915.jpg nostr:nevent1qqsxl42g8xlqeh3l946ly7tg7apl87k0t9lvrsdf7dplj0lju0r0sscpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuer9v4a8jtnfduhsygqyey2a4mlw8qchlfe5g39vacus4qnflevppv3yre0xm56rm7lveypsgqqqqqqs3epj0w
Love and respect, Sir Odell, but not correct. Looking at the bill, it's entirely limited to forced divestiture of a specific social media video app owned by a firm in a state deemed to be a "foreign adversary," which is strictly defined in US code: North Korea, Iran, China, Cuba, Russia, and Venezuela. There is no legal way to apply this to any other technology, company, or entity. It's actually a good thing if we care about getting people off CCP spyware. I wrote about it here: https://consumerchoicecenter.org/the-best-answer-to-tiktok-is-a-forced-divestiture/ As for Section 230, the cases before the Supreme Court this term are appeals where tech firms won and strengthened Section 230, and most legal observers say they have no chance. I'm inclined to agree. The only way to undo Section 230 is by Congress. In case that happens, there would be plenty of good privacy and tech advocates battling against that. As for free speech and nostr, there are a lot of lessons and nostr is well placed as a decentralized protocol. Very bullish. I just wouldn't take the arguments of the TikTok lawyers too seriously, since CCP want to expand their social credit score system. Maybe that's why they got their military to hack everyone's credit scores in the US: https://thespectator.com/topic/chinese-communist-party-credit-history-equifax/
Thank you for this comment. I can't abide loosing section 230. I do think banning tictok is not a good thing, and would eventually threaten somehow section 230, but, I feel better reading your response here. Without 230, game over for my nostr business, protec at all cost. 🌱🌴🌽🐻❄️
agree! thankfully the bill is just a forced divestiture. Same thing was applied to GRINDR when we found out the CCP was accessing people's sexual histories, HIV status, etc. The difference there was that it was ordered by CFIUS than an act of Congress. https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/6/21168079/grindr-sold-chinese-owner-us-cfius-security-concerns-kunlun-lgbtq
Not entirely. The current TikTok ban recognizes that the government is using the platform to gain access to Americans' personal information. So it's not necessarily a censorship bill in its current form. This shouldn't be allowed by any platform. The government should be required to have a warrant before accessing this information. The platform is only banned if it continues its perverse relationship with the government. We should maybe do this across the board, regardless of the government (the US does it, too). However, I agree this does create an opportunity to showcase the differences between Nostr and the other platforms.
Not entirely. The current TikTok ban recognizes that the government is using the platform to gain access to Americans' personal information. So it's not necessarily a censorship bill in its current form. This shouldn't be allowed by any platform. The government should be required to have a warrant before accessing this information. The platform is only banned if it continues its perverse relationship with the government. We should maybe do this across the board, regardless of the government (the US does it, too). However, I agree that this creates an opportunity to showcase the differences between Nostr and the other platforms. nostr:note1dl25swd7pn0r7tt47fuk3a6r70av7kt7c8q6nu6rlyll9c7xlpps8wnz37
We must call upon #nostrdesign #artstr to design some catchy shareable graphics that will capture displaced TikTok users and bring them to #grownostr. Sentiment along the lines of "the tiktok they can't ban" or "here's how to rebel against the old corrupt politicians who betrayed you 🖕🖕" The government isn't making friends with this move. But we sure can!
Ironically the TikTok generation is probably the most likely to find this "rebel"-narrative inviting. Them actually holding keys and not dropping Nostr as soon a Big Tech competitor arrives with their own version of that "rebel"-story is something else though 🤔
#grownostr #artstr (as it feels for me so far)😁 https://image.nostr.build/dbc373e744f2165e5262df55019c5b61f8c4ad079fe450d9c39a870c23a5fb5c.jpg
Twitter is next on the list? nostr:nevent1qqsxl42g8xlqeh3l946ly7tg7apl87k0t9lvrsdf7dplj0lju0r0sscpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygqyey2a4mlw8qchlfe5g39vacus4qnflevppv3yre0xm56rm7lveypsgqqqqqqsmelq5l
While I agree that we should not limit free speech at all, I am curious to understand why this bill specifically targets free speech. In the bill itself, there are two qualifiers for apps/websites/hosts to be fined and banned: 1) they are ByteDance, Tik Tok, and any subsidiaries or 2) controlled by a foreign adversary.
I should also mention that the only countries that are considered "Foreign Adversaries" by the United States are: 1) China 2) North Korea 3) Russia and 4) Iran.
Gather hot soup and blankets!
Then there is the Chinese version which is not the same version released to the Americans. PSYOP
The psyop was convincing people this has something to do with China, and Americans fell for it hence the government will now have more powers.
Gonna need more relays….
The US do restrict freedom of speech in many ways. Western countries have more freedom of speech than many others, but not enough at all. Also Nostr doesn't solve government censorship, only corporate censorship (which is still a big issue, so Nostr is important).
Just say "China" or "Russia" and Americans will let you do whatever you want to "keep them safe".
It's not a stretch to say that the president is controlled by the CCP and other powerful forces, and the president is mentioned specifically multiple times in this bill. The actual president does not play a real part because he is senile. So I think this particular bill is masterminded by the CCP.
this is why we can't be shy about integrating with shitcoins, they can do the heavy lifting for the more normie stuff and have fun being sued
Feel free to integrate your shitcoins with nostr. Doesn’t impact us or the protocol.
not my shitcoins, i'm just getting paid by them to build database interfaces... in bitcoin despite how scammy most shitcoin projects are i'm actually working for a project that is merely using shitcoin platforms to build a decentralised collab system it is not a shitcoin project, it is an effort to give people credible and secure alternatives to google tools
Sounds like something a shitcoiner would say.
Section 230 needs to be neutered - with the consequence that platforms which are truly neutral, non-censorship organizations get S230 protection and those who exercise editorial control are liable for what they publish. The current S230 for censorship organizations promotes censorship.
Section 230 made the Internet what it is. Setting up exemptions among Internet platforms would effectively weaken it, and that would harm free speech online.
I do not want to exempt internet platforms, I want to apply 230 as written, which is not the case now. 230 says that common carriers (eg telephone companies) providing a neutral service cannot be held liable for the messages people send across that neutral service. A tech company that censors some points of view is not a neutral service but is exercising editorial control, and can & should be held liable for what they choose to publish or exclude. The existing framework allows these companies to censor and still enjoy the legal protection of a common carrier. By requiring them to actually function as a common carrier to enjoy this protection, free speech would be enhanced rather than harmed.
Online platforms are not common carriers, at least not according to Title II. Nor should they be. They shouldn't be forced to carry all content, and that's a good thing. Recent court cases in Florida and Texas have ruled this way, and the Supreme Court is due to write an opinion on the state-level rules that would have made it illegal to curate content on social media. Removing the "right to censor" also means requiring blogs to host all comments and spam regardless of content. The main issue on censorship and moderation stems from the jawboning at the hands of US agencies – directly or indirectly – which should absolutely be illegal. Ultimately, nostr can win not because social media platforms will be "forced" to carry all content, but because online users will recognize that the censorious platforms suck and will choose to go elsewhere. I'd rather have that freedom to choose, and continue Section 230 as it applies to online platforms, than have the government make that determination.
Nobody is forced to host all content, they are just not a common carrier if they pick and choose (and thus are liable for the outcome of their editorial discretion).
Could that be applied to relay operators too though?
If you're selling relay hosting as a service, then yes If your revenue stream is something else (or charitable), then no
Even common carriers do some censorship, for example they filter spam. So where is the line the drawn?
I don't see how you can draw the line at anything other than "does not filter" vs "does filter" if you're trying to be consistent (which the law purportedly is)
Actually I am not sure if common carriers filter spam. Anyeays, social media or any other type of platform cannot possibly be called a common carrier, as there is a pretty clear distinction between displaying content versus providing the pipes over which content travels.
Fuck TikTok. But also fuck censorship. Bigger fish, ya know.
Exactly. Regulation and censorship is kept the way out of this mess. Will only serve to entangle further.
Governments all over the world are too big. Need to fire 95% of them. Wen blockchain governance?
Better than Blockchain governance is real democracy like in Switzerland. https://thedemocracyupgrade.org
tiktok should stop protecting child predators
If only there was some amendment that protected a citizen from such draconian measures……
And our senile “leader” rolls this one out. YCMTSU…you can’t make this shit up. https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-mining-tax-united-states-budget
The little servers that could…💜 @NoGood ✌️ https://nogood.studio/nostr/NOSTRexplained_Spread_003.jpg
NOSTR is the salvation for all of those who love freedom! 💪🏾🤘🏾😎⚡️
I'm brand new - Thanks to TT. Any suggestions for us newbs?
Odell I need your help. I don’t know how to press my buttons right to make them work.
Can you please calm down and turn off caps lock
His are the quietest ALL CAPS posts on the internet, decentralized or otherwise. But they have loud content.
I've gone from fretting over these things to assuming they're going to happen - incentives at work - and just looking forward to the potentials of the next steage
Wish the Ramones were still around. Where are this generation’s musicians right now????? https://youtu.be/CsDwfG05SOw?si=iFfGlj1zmI5KsgiR
And those billions will be confronted in nostr with the broken money system and the solution Bitcoin. They will start to buy BTC too. Maybe we should stack harder just in case.
My first opinion about TikTok is that this platform has low-quality content that reduces moral values and mental standards and makes you addicted to dopamine spikes. In my view banning it is a great move. The beauty of Nostr is you are not more attached to addictive algorithms and controlled narratives. Now content consumption is in your hands. Nostr gives you the power to choose your content. I believe Nostr and Zapping are ready to onboard creators and audiences.
I’m here and free
LFG! America 🇺🇸
it would be funny if nostr was also censored.
Censoring a nostr is close to impossible. The only possible way, shutting down the internet.
that's why it would be funny to see the attempt of censoring it
People will be driven toward freedom
Absolutely agree! With the current pace of accumulation by ETFs, it's evident that the bullish momentum for #Bitcoin is strong. The increasing demand is a clear sign of confidence in its long-term value it's crucial to 1000x your positions now and stay ready for the bull. join RCL VIP group now and DCA with high algorithm performance and 1000x your positions, https://t.me/rebelcapitalistshow🚀🔥💯
Absolutely agree! With the current pace of accumulation by ETFs, it's evident that the bullish momentum for #Bitcoin is strong. The increasing demand is a clear sign of confidence in its long-term value it's crucial to 1000x your positions now and stay ready for the bull. join RCL VIP group now and DCA with high algorithm performance and 1000x your positions, https://t.me/rebelcapitalistshow🚀🔥💯
Decentralize all the things!
Real democracy (Swiss democracy) is the way. In Switzerland this would have gone to referendum and the people would have voted no.
Didnt our founders explicitly reject pure democracy for good reasons?
Their point about real democracy was that it suffered tyranny of the majority. But the thing is, the system they choose is the one that suffers from this problem. The federal government will eventually eat the US, with time. Swiss democracy is the only system with no tyranny of the majority. It has referendums every 3 months and thus no group can ever win constantly. There's no tyranny of the majority because there's no majority ever. You win today, you lose tomorrow, and on it goes. - 7 Principles of the Swiss Democracy - People's Veto Power (power to deny any law at any level) - Federalism (3 referendum levels, national, regional and local) - Open Lists (a.k.a vote in the people, not parties) - People's Initiatives (a.k.a let the people start new laws) - The Constitutional Referendums (a.k.a raising taxes always triggers a referendum) - Public Recalls (everybody can be removed from political positions) - Mixed Executive Government (parties work together)
Very interesting. Bro why no wallet!?! I tried to zap you
Ah, thank you good sir, very kind :) I did create a wallet now, hopefully it works!
How'd they avoid a majority? Seems like the US has almost always had one.
When exactly, in the US? There's no tyranny of the majority in Switzerland because of the tools listed above. In other words: Optional Referendums: Citizens can reject laws passed by the government through petition. Federalism: Power is decentralized, letting regions make their own decisions. Open Lists and Panachage: Voters pick individual candidates, not just parties. People Initiatives: Citizens can propose new laws with enough signatures. And in another more pragmatic way: There is no clear majority because we have about 14 referendums every three months, totaling 60 per year at all levels: national, cantonal, and municipal. These cover very specific topics, such as whether to build a statue for X in our municipality, invest in nuclear energy in our state, allow states to define education infrastructure, or veto a specific law. In other words, the topics are so specific that they completely bypass the usual left-right, group-focused politics. You might win one referendum but lose another. No single group ever dominates because the people interested in referendums are always changing.
Interesting. We so have, in some fashion, similar tools in the US. Prob is a scaling issue: US has 300+ million citizens of diverse cultures across a large geography, switzerland has 9 million people of mostyl european ethnicity in a small strip of land the size of Virginia.
Yes, there are already some states in the US that have these tools. In terms of scalability I don't think there's any problems at all. These tools are blind to numbers, it's just a matter of adapting the signature triggers to the population of the US. Regarding adoption, it's the same as every other political change, bottom-up and top-down. I'm a big proponent of bottom-up first, i.e implementing the 7 Swiss political tools listed above in a municipality somewhere, sharing the results with the world on the internet and scaling from there. That's the whole idea why I've created the website, Discords, etc, to get the movement going. Are you interested in this kind of ideas? I honestly don't see any better alternatives to this. The alternative is just more polarization, conflict and wars, in the really dumb, brute force system that we have today.
Haha wow bro tbh I didnt even see your profile and that you had a website and this is literally your main thing. I thought was just shootin the poop with an average nostrich. Ill take a look at your stuff.. looks cool!
eheh, I am just "shooting the poop" too regardless :D But yeah, I'm also tired of the status quo and really believe we have to elevate the state of discourse, refining our political systems using all the available technological tools such as blockchains, Bitcoin, Web3, etc, etc. What tools are we missing to truly bring the change we want to bring to the world? You know what I mean?
“Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear." -Harry Truman 1950 To be clear, we're at the "Increasingly repressive measures" phase of this plan...
I want to use it more but no one sees my tweets, feels lonely here
Back to the days of chronological time lines - there's an app to schedule posts now, I don't know if it can auto boost certain posts at times you set, maybe that'll increase your reach? I've got plenty of follows here and gets sufficient interaction - I'm not sure how owners of more popular accounts manage it tbh
Seems too Dan Heldy, I don't want to live like that
Couldn’t have said it better! How can we get ready? Reposted 🫡
Well said! Removing barriers to entry (while reinforcing best practices on account security) is gonna be critical
fucked up
Code is speech. Cypherpunks write code. RIP "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." nostr:note1dl25swd7pn0r7tt47fuk3a6r70av7kt7c8q6nu6rlyll9c7xlpps8wnz37
Nostr might be too much for TikTok-brain people, those with deep-fried dopamine receptors
Barely anyone will come to nostr from TikTok. It was banned here in India few years ago and people just moved to Instagram reels
If it wasn’t for TikTok, I wouldn’t have heard of this client thingy that I do not quite understand. I think I prefer Tumblr, when it comes to aesthetics, and the ability to stack gif/links/photos. I think I need to find better tutorials than I found. The kind that don’t have all the endorsement buy this…stuff I don’t understand in the beginning so I want to leave. ☠️! These seems rather basic! If I’m supposed to speak in code to make things work. I will probably surely not use this much! But I’m giving it a chance. https://i.current.fyi/1d7091a7873fcf50/uploads/image3398183.jpg
Yeah, perhaps for most. However there’s a small segment of TT’ers that have done such a great job of challenging the mainstream narrative that the Red & Blue Uniparty is going to great lengths to cut out their tongue(s).
the main issue behind TikTok ban bill is where our data is stored my statement: all DATA should be stored on satellites END OF STORY
Maybe the ban is a good thing...hear me out: tiktok is spyware, so speech there isnt truly free...so banning it results in migration to truly free nostr...thus net increase in free speech and freedom. Not that they intend this, but they are the super good at causing unintended consequences.
deleted my twitter account
