Oddbean

KYC Monero is.. Monero. Really wish Bitcoin had taken privacy more seriously! Then again it would've likely become a MUCH bigger target earlier on if it was fully private and anonymous. But don't kid yourselves. If there is a way, the leeches will suck you dry. #bitcoin #monero

Kyc monero supposedly is not traceable but there is a record of your ownership. In this case, if you purchase $500k of kyc monero, it doesn’t matter if it’s “private” because there is a record on binance or wherever you bought it.

What is a store of value if not a boring thing that keeps prices of everday things in check. The minute BTC is fully capitalised and works as an actual store of value you will want to seek shelter in a more private form as tax enforcement will try to haunt you down. Most offshore banks operate with USD despite it being a mediocre store of value. We are living in the era before store of value, where BTC works as the best investment ever? created. A time where inflation and crumbling trust in fiat institutions gets observable and tradable again through BTC. Enjoy it. The next era will shift attention and excitement from Bitcoin to Monero. And by that Monero's mediocre store of value qualities despite currently having the same inflation as Bitcoin and less circulating supply will resolve itself in the capitalisation phase as it will be seen as a giga chad hedge against both transparent/taxable BTC and failing fiat currencies.

You’re speculating long into the future. I don’t know or believe that the future looks the way you envision. Monero has infinite inflation so saying that it’s identical to bitcoin is wrong. Bitcoin has no inflation. Supply limit is capped. Monero’s supply is not capped. You are comparing Bitcoin’s issuance of a capped supply to literal inflation in monero. It is not the same thing. If monero’s market cap remains low and the price doesn’t improve, it will not work as a medium of exchange. Selling a couple million dollars of monero would tank the monero price. Your medium of exchange “may” still be private but you’re poor now.

Selling for products and services won't tank the price. That's what a circular economy is for. Monero's disinflation is limited by time and known 1000+ years in advance. It's a tradeoff made to guarantee security of the network in case fees are not sufficient.

I think I am right when I say that most of us who use Monero, do just that - using it - as a currency. As you pointed out, it has never proved itself to be a store of value, but that's ok too, provided that there are trustless ways in and out of Monero from Bitcoin. Monero is for spending, Bitcoin for hodling and savings (and yes, I know, Lightning and all that, but I don't see big-amount transfers being possible on Lightning anytime soon)

But it does matter. I 100% agree with you that the best is there being no record at all, but failing that, with Bitcoin the exchange/bank/regulated institution will bother you for mixing coins after withdrawing, for example - all due to onchain Bitcoin piss-poor privacy, which does not do any freedom lovers any favors. While with Monero, all they know and will ever know (unless something massive goes wrong with the privacy and anonymity protections that Monero employs), is that you got some, and then you withdrew some. Still not as good as there not being a record at all, but at least the fact that there is a record doesn't condemn you to eternal surveillance and blocking of the KYC account if you ever do something the Masters don't approve of. I guess for people who just use crypto as ngu tech this doesn't matter much, they will not mind being fully traceable and really only want the increased spending power.. but for those of us who want true financial autonomy and spending crypto peer to peer.. the surveillance stemming from the lack of priv/anon is a real issue.

My opinion is that store of value is most important to the market. You can find ways to be more private in bitcoin (e.g. mixing, liquid, cashu) but you can’t improve store of value without a fixed supply. Trading with people in monero is more far difficult than finding non kyc bitcoin. There are no perfect solutions, only tradeoffs. The tradeoff with bitcoin is you do more work to keep privacy based on your needs but have the best store of value.

Personally I don't think that Monero's technically infinite supply is the issue when it comes to it not being as good a store of value as BTC, since 1) it is known that the supply will grow (not fraudulent/scammy like central bank monies) and 2) the increase is so small spread over so long that for practical purposes, for the user of the currency, it's the same as having a fixed supply. The biggest differentiator (imo) is that Bitcoin was the genesis of the crypto space, and this will never change. It's like the face of the whole brand, and inside that it's its own unique brand. I don't think that will ever change, and indeed I am banking on it. Which is why my savings are in BTC, not XMR. What does bother me is how many otherwise rational people dismiss XMR outright just because it's not BTC! In the long fight for more freedom, there is more than one tool.