Oddbean

Talking Points to help with your notes, go get him, Jack: 100+ pages compiled: https://bitcoinapolis.blogspot.com/2022/12/bitcoin-digital-gold-versus-analogue.html Saylor (from a while ago documented above) "The fundamental point here is is you have to give the world a solution to their problem not just be a Critic if you want to be a Critic you can criticize everything but but what's his answer if you listen if you listen to Peter's (Schiff) debates what he says is he only has five percent of his portfolio invested in gold which means that he has 95 percent invested in something else. But what is this something else and the point is he you know you're back in the same you know hedge fund Shuffle mentality it's like just give me all your money and I'm just going to shuffle it with random 95 opacity on random stuff back and forth but don't question it. What about the five it was a recommendation he would own more than 50 percent of his portfolio in the gold but he doesn't believe in it so but his argument would be I don't recommend people to buy 50 percent I recommend people to buy two to five percent that's his position he doesn't have an answer to the that that means that you're going to lose 95 percent of your wealth. The issue with Peter is Peter's not offering a solution to the world right he's simply trolling Bitcoin and he's not trolling Bitcoin with any any real concrete criticism other than he just doesn't like it. Find me somebody in the world who has invested more than 50 percent of a portfolio in gold or at a billion dollar level. I got my position is pretty clear I've invested almost four billion dollars in Bitcoin." ============ Specific Reasons Saylor won't debate Schiff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D2M3b1doRg "Why the Peter Schiff/Michael Saylor Gold -vs- Bitcoin Debate will never happen" Subhead Spoiler: "It's a waste of time" Me: All in Saylor's words from a recent Quoth the Raven episode (at almost the very end of the two hour podcast) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D2M3b1doRg June 6th, 2024 on YouTube but recorded end of May. Michael Saylor: ...In terms of Peter Schiff I think my issue here is we mostly agree on the problem we have just have two different solutions and my solution is technology digital capital via Bitcoin his solution is gold. But it's not constructive to debate him because he hasn't changed his position position in 15 years while bitcoin's gone from like a dollar to 66,000 and he doesn't introduce any new arguments all he's doing is just arguing in favor of gold and at the end of the day. Peter Schiff doesn't own gold and so so he does own gold he he said for the record only a small portion of his portfolio is gold he's not even majority invested in Gold he doesn't have a billion in Gold he's got half half of his portfolio is in miners. The point is those miners are short gold Chris they're short gold they're selling gold every day in the market so the point is if you're arguing in favor investing in gold miners. Well you might as well be arguing in favor of investing in like soybean Farmers or natural gas Drillers or whatever you're an industrial analyst promoting industrial stocks which is fine but that's not money. He (Schiff) would disagree with you that he's short gold he would say is that if the price of gold rises, miners are going to rise as a multiple of that because that because you're essentially long goal with leverage. Which is very different than being short, I just don't really think it's constructive or a good use of anybody's time. Peter has has been debated on this topic for a decade, I mean like heck, when I got into Bitcoin in 2020, one of the reasons I bought Bitcoin was because I saw Eric Voorhees and Peter shift debate from 2017. Like he (Peter Schiff) wasn't persuasive in 2017 he (Schiff) hasn't been persuasive since. I think that it's a disservice to actually promote that in general. By the way I think it's I think the elephant in the room here is I don't think you can find a single person in the world who owns a billion dollars worth of gold. I challenge you to find one yeah go go find me a person that owns a billion dollars worth of gold as an investment and then bring them and if you can find me that person Chris I'll debate them, I will, I will debate." ======= Other Points of view and more Saylor: - Larry Lepard: "If you melted all the gold in the world down it would fill 2 Olympic sized swimming pools." (And they can add 2-3% more a year or even more if the 'price is right.') - Saylor: "Gold is Dead Money" - Saylor: "Gold is an awful monetary asset." - Saylor: "So, commodity, the kiss of death is, when the price goes up, everybody's going to charge into that business and they're going to double the production of it. If the price of gold goes up, there are more goldminers coming online. When it goes up by a factor of ten, there are a lot of goldminers coming online. And by the way, that's not the problem; that's a part of the problem; that's a first order of problem. If I actually take the price of gold to $50,000 an ounce, I'm going to get a lot more goldminers. But here I'm going to tell you what the real problem is. When the price of gold goes to $50,000 an ounce, and hundreds of billions of dollars get invested in goldmining, they're going to double the production or triple the production of gold; they're going to drive the price down. But, the variable cost of producing gold's going to be $2,000 an ounce; the price is going to be $50,000 an ounce; the price of gold is going to get driven into the dirt to $40,000 to $30,000 to $20,000 to $15,000 to $10,000 to $5,000. When it gets to $2,000 an ounce, it's possible that the goldminers will go offline, or the commodities will go online. " - Saifedean Ammous: "...but I think it’s reality at this point, and I think clinging on to gold was probably the biggest financial mistake that I’ve ever made." - Saylor: "You’ve got the fiat monetary system—and as we’ve said, if you put $100 million into fiat, you’re gonna lose 99% of your money over a hundred years. And then you’ve got a gold monetary system: you put $100 million in gold, you’re gonna lose 80% or 85% or 90% of your position over a hundred years, because it’s inflating, and it’s got counter-party risk. " Saylor: "Over the course of the century, 95% of the gold was confiscated (Me: documented) in the last 100 years. So maybe theoretically the United States government might have got that gain. But everybody in Russia, China, every country in Europe, everybody in South America and Asia, they all lost their gold. So if you do a risk adjusted calculation, you find that you invest a dollar, it should be worth $100. But you lost it, not all of it 95 from the time you get five bucks." Saylor: " So my view here is, is Bitcoin is the ideal architecture to be a currency and gold isn't. I started my career modeling commodities and the history of commodities is as the price goes up, the demand decreases, the supply increases. Gold is a commodity, Bitcoin is a scarcity. " Saylor: "You said that on Stansberry December 2020, and then the famous Peter Schiff said, quote, I don't own much gold, I own more gold stocks. " Back: https://x.com/adam3us/status/1641394621749026818?s=46&t=YWC79OfCrPaCG1APbpOpRQ ====== - Caitlin Long: "in my opinion, there's nothing special about gold itself. What gold did was literally just put a tether on the dollar, on how much credit could be created." - Tyler Winklevoss "Our basic thesis for bitcoin is that it is better than gold.” -Saifedean Ammous: “It’s just a digital, decentralized technology for doing gold’s job. It’s just the simpler, faster, cheaper way of doing what gold does.” Steve Wozniak: “Only bitcoin is pure digital gold… and I totally buy into that. All the others tend to give up some of the aspects of bitcoin. For example, being totally decentralized and having no central control. That’s the first one they have to give up to try to have a business model.” - Jack Dorsey: "(Bitcoin) is designed to mimic the supply of a real-world commodity, gold. This means that the number of coins that it is possible to mine is restricted: the supply will eventually hit a ceiling with 21m bitcoins." - Pomp: "Bitcoin is a 100x improvement over gold as a store of value. The world is realizing this and beginning to reprice digital currency in real-time. Although bitcoin has increased hundreds of percent in the last few months, it is likely to continue appreciating in US dollar terms over the coming years. I suspect that bitcoin's market cap will surpass gold's market cap by 2030. For this reason, I own no gold and have a material percent of my net worth invested in bitcoin." Space Mining? (me: iif you think we will live on Mars, mining Gold in space isn't too far fetched, you can't do this with Bitcoin): https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/asteroid-16-psyche-may-be-worth-more-than-planet-earth-at-10-quintillion-in-fine-metals-180979303/

Bitcoin: "Jack Mallers to Debate Peter Schiff" https://m.primal.net/KGzM.png Snippets from specific talking points and other people's views (Lepard, Saif, Dorsey, Winklevoss) on Gold versus Bitcoin including why Saylor doesn't want to debate Schiff on gold. Saylor (from a while ago documented above) "The fundamental point here is is you have to give the world a solution to their problem not just be a Critic if you want to be a Critic you can criticize everything but but what's his answer if you listen if you listen to Peter's (Schiff) debates what he says is he only has five percent of his portfolio invested in gold which means that he has 95 percent invested in something else. But what is this something else and the point is he you know you're back in the same you know hedge fund Shuffle mentality it's like just give me all your money and I'm just going to shuffle it with random 95 opacity on random stuff back and forth but don't question it. What about the five it was a recommendation he would own more than 50 percent of his portfolio in the gold but he doesn't believe in it so but his argument would be I don't recommend people to buy 50 percent I recommend people to buy two to five percent that's his position he doesn't have an answer to the that that means that you're going to lose 95 percent of your wealth. The issue with Peter is Peter's not offering a solution to the world right he's simply trolling Bitcoin and he's not trolling Bitcoin with any any real concrete criticism other than he just doesn't like it. Find me somebody in the world who has invested more than 50 percent of a portfolio in gold or at a billion dollar level. I got my position is pretty clear I've invested almost four billion dollars in Bitcoin." ============ Specific Reasons Saylor won't debate Schiff:"Why the Peter Schiff/Michael Saylor Gold -vs- Bitcoin Debate will never happen" Subhead Spoiler: "It's a waste of time" Me: All in Saylor's words from a recent Quoth the Raven episode (at almost the very end of the two hour podcast)June 6th, 2024 on YouTube but recorded end of May. Michael Saylor: ...In terms of Peter Schiff I think my issue here is we mostly agree on the problem we have just have two different solutions and my solution is technology digital capital via Bitcoin his solution is gold. But it's not constructive to debate him because he hasn't changed his position position in 15 years while bitcoin's gone from like a dollar to 66,000 and he doesn't introduce any new arguments all he's doing is just arguing in favor of gold and at the end of the day. Peter Schiff doesn't own gold and so so he does own gold he he said for the record only a small portion of his portfolio is gold he's not even majority invested in Gold he doesn't have a billion in Gold he's got half half of his portfolio is in miners. The point is those miners are short gold Chris they're short gold they're selling gold every day in the market so the point is if you're arguing in favor investing in gold miners. Well you might as well be arguing in favor of investing in like soybean Farmers or natural gas Drillers or whatever you're an industrial analyst promoting industrial stocks which is fine but that's not money. He (Schiff) would disagree with you that he's short gold he would say is that if the price of gold rises, miners are going to rise as a multiple of that because that because you're essentially long goal with leverage. Which is very different than being short, I just don't really think it's constructive or a good use of anybody's time. Peter has has been debated on this topic for a decade, I mean like heck, when I got into Bitcoin in 2020, one of the reasons I bought Bitcoin was because I saw Eric Voorhees and Peter shift debate from 2017. Like he (Peter Schiff) wasn't persuasive in 2017 he (Schiff) hasn't been persuasive since. I think that it's a disservice to actually promote that in general. By the way I think it's I think the elephant in the room here is I don't think you can find a single person in the world who owns a billion dollars worth of gold. I challenge you to find one yeah go go find me a person that owns a billion dollars worth of gold as an investment and then bring them and if you can find me that person Chris I'll debate them, I will, I will debate." ======= Other Points of view and more Saylor: - Larry Lepard: "If you melted all the gold in the world down it would fill 2 Olympic sized swimming pools." (And they can add 2-3% more a year or even more if the 'price is right.') - Saylor: "Gold is Dead Money" - Saylor: "Gold is an awful monetary asset." - Saylor: "So, commodity, the kiss of death is, when the price goes up, everybody's going to charge into that business and they're going to double the production of it. If the price of gold goes up, there are more goldminers coming online. When it goes up by a factor of ten, there are a lot of goldminers coming online. And by the way, that's not the problem; that's a part of the problem; that's a first order of problem. If I actually take the price of gold to $50,000 an ounce, I'm going to get a lot more goldminers. But here I'm going to tell you what the real problem is. When the price of gold goes to $50,000 an ounce, and hundreds of billions of dollars get invested in goldmining, they're going to double the production or triple the production of gold; they're going to drive the price down. But, the variable cost of producing gold's going to be $2,000 an ounce; the price is going to be $50,000 an ounce; the price of gold is going to get driven into the dirt to $40,000 to $30,000 to $20,000 to $15,000 to $10,000 to $5,000. When it gets to $2,000 an ounce, it's possible that the goldminers will go offline, or the commodities will go online. " - Saifedean Ammous: "...but I think it’s reality at this point, and I think clinging on to gold was probably the biggest financial mistake that I’ve ever made." - Saylor: "You’ve got the fiat monetary system—and as we’ve said, if you put $100 million into fiat, you’re gonna lose 99% of your money over a hundred years. And then you’ve got a gold monetary system: you put $100 million in gold, you’re gonna lose 80% or 85% or 90% of your position over a hundred years, because it’s inflating, and it’s got counter-party risk. " Saylor: "Over the course of the century, 95% of the gold was confiscated (Me: documented) in the last 100 years. So maybe theoretically the United States government might have got that gain. But everybody in Russia, China, every country in Europe, everybody in South America and Asia, they all lost their gold. So if you do a risk adjusted calculation, you find that you invest a dollar, it should be worth $100. But you lost it, not all of it 95 from the time you get five bucks." Saylor: " So my view here is, is Bitcoin is the ideal architecture to be a currency and gold isn't. I started my career modeling commodities and the history of commodities is as the price goes up, the demand decreases, the supply increases. Gold is a commodity, Bitcoin is a scarcity. " Saylor: "You said that on Stansberry December 2020, and then the famous Peter Schiff said, quote, I don't own much gold, I own more gold stocks. " Back: https://x.com/adam3us/status/1641394621749026818?s=46&t=YWC79OfCrPaCG1APbpOpRQ ====== - Caitlin Long: "in my opinion, there's nothing special about gold itself. What gold did was literally just put a tether on the dollar, on how much credit could be created." - Tyler Winklevoss "Our basic thesis for bitcoin is that it is better than gold.” -Saifedean Ammous: “It’s just a digital, decentralized technology for doing gold’s job. It’s just the simpler, faster, cheaper way of doing what gold does.” Steve Wozniak: “Only bitcoin is pure digital gold… and I totally buy into that. All the others tend to give up some of the aspects of bitcoin. For example, being totally decentralized and having no central control. That’s the first one they have to give up to try to have a business model.” - Jack Dorsey: "(Bitcoin) is designed to mimic the supply of a real-world commodity, gold. This means that the number of coins that it is possible to mine is restricted: the supply will eventually hit a ceiling with 21m bitcoins." - Pomp: "Bitcoin is a 100x improvement over gold as a store of value. The world is realizing this and beginning to reprice digital currency in real-time. Although bitcoin has increased hundreds of percent in the last few months, it is likely to continue appreciating in US dollar terms over the coming years. I suspect that bitcoin's market cap will surpass gold's market cap by 2030. For this reason, I own no gold and have a material percent of my net worth invested in bitcoin." Space Mining? (me: iif you think we will live on Mars, mining Gold in space isn't too far fetched, you can't do this with Bitcoin): https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/asteroid-16-psyche-may-be-worth-more-than-planet-earth-at-10-quintillion-in-fine-metals-180979303/ nostr:note19gqnletgg0uxhvx9are7y8q2ul5zm4qewhqdgrmrs0t86a9ljleq4gz2g4