Oddbean

I used to think that Jesus was just a successful cult leader. I still feel that he was a man like anyone else. However, he was a man who realized the truth that god is within all of us and makes up all of creation. I identify closely with Spinoza’s idea of god as the force that moves all things. We are all parts of the whole, temporarily perceiving our self through a limited perspective. It is hard to draw any real distinction between ourselves and the world around us. Everyone I try to talk to about this looks at me like I’m crazy. Any thoughts? https://m.primal.net/JmQT.jpg

What you've described is known by many names, among them "monism," "pantheism," "theosophy," "gnosticism," etc. It's very old, and is extremely popular today (e.g., it drives the U.N.). A common way to summarize this view is "all is one." Christianity is very different, as it proclaims an infinite, eternal, and unchangable triune God, who transcends his creation, and is in no way dependant upon it for his being or his knowledge. Creator and creation are utterly distinct--therefore, "all is two." See John 1 and Colossians 1 and Hebrews 1 for more on Christ--identified with the creator of all things visible and invisible, and yet he took on flesh and dwelt among us. He is not merely a man most enlightened--he is the infinite God incarnate. This video unpacks these two fudamentally incompatible views - pantheism and Christian theism and may be of interest to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWEXhE2n_hQ

The deeper I go in understanding divinity the less I know. You will find a strong opposition to these ideas in the broader Christian community, which is understanable, but if you stay connected with the one true God you will find your way. The key to that connection for me has been conquering every kind of addiction. One at a time.

Absolutely, the deeper I go the more I am completely in awe of everything around me and how magnificently it all functions. And I agree just being grateful for this experience and feeling part of something bigger has helped me and I try to overcome my many addictions.

Ah it's a book. I will read it. This isn't the first time I've come across a split between Gnosticism and Christianity, but truthfully I don't know much about the background of the debate. I also know essentially nothing about Gnosticism. This book will be helpful in understanding that.

L take. Recommend you read the Bible (NASB95 or LSB), Spurgeon, MacArthur, and pray throughout your time of studying God. It's a journey but the road you are going down is one of lies and deceitfulness

I do read the Bible and I do believe in it. I definitely do not have a fixed perspective on it, just some ideas I’ve been building on. (much of which I’ve taken from my studying of the Bible) Are those specific translations that you are recommending?

Will definitely check them out and I appreciate you giving your perspective. I guess my only push back would be the idea that the Bible could be misinterpreted at all. In my mind it is a work of literature and however one interprets it is god speaking through it 🤷‍♂️

Ha that is a 2 hour convo right there 😂 but that's kind of the point of the denominations, confessions, and statements of faith. Everyone believe their interpretation is correct, but they all disagree to an extent

We haven’t officially met, but I’m Auxmos 🤝 Long time follower of Jesus here with my 2 sats: I think the Church’s inability to identify with what you’re describing here is its greatest issue currently. I’ve come to identify the issue as a sacred // real divide. (Or a sacred // physical 🌍 divide). Let me explain: When I hear you say “…the truth that god is within all of us and makes up all of creation” I hear Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬ “…one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” When I hear you say “…we are all parts of the whole…” I hear 1 Corinthians 12:12 “Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ.” With that said, properly orienting yourself in the midst of this God swirl 🌀 is entirely contingent upon your proper orientation with the “head” of the body, namely Jesus. I believe the churches inability to identify with what you’re feeling in your physical body and in the physical world around you is due to the Church’s emphasis of explicitly spiritual (ethereal) matters unto the neglect of the physical (worldly) matters. I actually believe this is the chief issue the Church needs to overcome in order to understand the significance of #Bitcoin. I’ve actually written a paper recently tailored for the local Church unpacking this idea to help them understand #Bitcoin. To take an excerpt from that paper: “Our physical bodies are now the temple of the Holy Spirit, and in Him the whole world holds together. It’s not obvious that our bodies are simply earthen vessels just as it’s not obvious that the world is just an object. He is in all and through all, and that’s exactly the point. The Lord is concerned with the “physical” order of things, especially as it pertains to the freedom of His people.” Said differently, the Church has good theology for why Jesus had to come as a man, but we do not have good theology for why he is still a man. @sourcenode @freeborn | ἐλεύθερος

Beautiful. I am grateful you are taking the time to build a bridge. I have a difficult time articulating my spiritual beliefs.. most of the time it feels fruitless to do so. To cram my own experience of the Lord's work into words often feels clumsy at best; bordering on sacrilegious. Personally I've found a lot of insight through learning about the desert fathers. I'm planning to go deeper into studying them when I have time to do so. I believe we are on the cusp of a new reformation and a new renaissance. The world has become increasingly profane since the last one and I believe the pendulum will swing back into a new form of spirituality which is more personal and less hierarchical. Discussions like this one are very valuable in my opinion. Thanks for chiming in. Christ is king 🙏

May I suggest beginning with the ecumenical creeds? [Apostles' Creed](https://www.ccel.org/creeds/apostles.creed.html) [Nicene Creed](https://www.ccel.org/creeds/nicene.creed.html) This is how our fathers and brothers in the faith articulated the teaching of Scripture--what we believe, and what we do not, from time immemorial. 🤙

The word We is a tricky one here. It implies an intellectual concensus of seperate individuals. (Speaking for others). I'm not sure if such a moral conformity can exist. For example, two people can say they agree with those creeds, but the interpretation and internal experience of that agreement is different for each individual. Many debates and discussions have happened between Christians over the years regarding these ideas. One Christian may choose to judge another as non-Christian for their interpretations, but in the end that is only a judgment of man against man. All of us fall short of the glory of God.

Very nice to meet you Auxmos. Very well put! Like @sourcenode said, I’m very glad to hear you are working on brining a better understanding of #bitcoin to the church. Many of my loved ones are Christians and I have such a hard time explaining how I feel about the church. I think that having a group of like minded people coming together being grateful, singing, and praying together is very powerful and important. The Bible is without doubt one of if not the most powerful and significant works of literature ever written. But in my mind it is still undoubtedly work of man (although all of our actions are the work of “God”) and there is so much wisdom to be drawn from it. I feel that the key is drawing your own conclusions, although we must learn from everyone around us. Will definitely be digging in to that paper! I’m glad there are people like you who are better with words than I am🫡❤️