Oddbean

Years ago, every week I drove past properties for sale in the mountains that were 100-2000 acres. I would dream about ways to buy one of these properties with friends, since the idea of doing it alone seemed out-of-reach, or would turn into me being a landlord for people with nothing personally invested. I looked for others with a similar desire, and found some, but they were often "all talk and no action". I finally found a few folks that were willing to hold regular meetings, (which seemed like a miracle), and get tasks completed. I learned a lot, and it helped me fill in some gaps as to how it would all work. The idea, for me, has grown in several ways. First, was realizing that the group would have to be an investment group first. This concept alone turns away a lot of the subculture that is attracted to the idea of sharing rural land. The original idea was to secure a single property, now I see that a network of properties is better. Each plot specializing in what that land best provides, and trading with the others. I see people on Nostr mentioning Citadels, and realized they may be describing this same desire. Please correct me if I'm wrong! If I'm correct, then realize that there are enough people wanting to make a new and better reality to have multiple "Citadels" in most states.

Especially on the larger end of that scale, given y’all agreed on how it would be divided up beforehand, it could still be possible to pool your resources for the purchase price but then parcel it into a network of individual private properties immediately after. Best of both worlds? I wonder if anyone has done this.

One concept I've considered is each parcel having shares. Or a pool of shares that applies to any property. The group would have to make a plan for each property (how many homesites, how large is a homesite/private area), then determine how many shares one needs to claim a homesite. There are many ways to slice things up, and I think many of them will work. What's more important than "which practical solution is best" is if all parties understand and agree to their own terms. This is somewhat similar to the original concept of condominiums from days of old.

I agree. The purpose of agreements is to ensure that everyone continues to agree with each other. Terms to agree are highly specific and constantly evolving. Interdependency means agreements are explicit and consciously chosen with clear exit options. Everyone is self responsible to change dependency terms once their needs and wants change over time.

Without doubt, ownership of land is crucial to any citadel concept, in spite of how flimsy property rights may have proven to be in certain places Also I like the idea of making the screening more difficult. An investment group is a good start @Brisket was very insightful talking about this in relation to a property in Australia, in particular to the opportunity cost of land vs more BTC So a group willing to forgo BTC to buy land lowers the risk for each investor in a sense Plus yes, the idea of trading directly between specialised operations makes lots of sense Love to hear more about how you get on 👏

My opportunity cost for every decision is denominated in sats now. I suspect that many of the "investors" I'd be calling on are similar & would feel that the cost in sats is too great right now. I expect that in the next 18-24 months, this will change. I see a world with many citadels dotted around where people are able to elevate their optionality. This is the meshtadel concept.

The “meshtadel” Love that phrase. First time I’ve heard it 👏👏 👏 And yes I totally agree that in a not too distant future, Bitcoiners might well want to re-allocate into alternative hard assets (eg land)

I guess it depends on how far one is willing to travel for trade. In my area, there's plenty of land for several of these in each county. The state would fight against it. I imagine some areas might not have as much rural space available. With enough "free states", goods could be hopped from one place to another; like how email was handled by BBS's.

"Takeover" and jump starting local circular economy sounds more realistic than building on the green fields in terms of some real economic sustainability to me. The specialization of labor works better if you have 1-5k people than 10-20.

- Move into a 1K mountain town - Get a lease over the local pub. Or create a new one - Push Bitcoin through discounts to them, setup meetups/education, organize non-bitcoin events - Create 1k Bitcoin/Sovereign minded friends *If there's a trailer park / campground, I'm moving over to help run it

I will let you know!! The region I’m focusing on is in between the Berkshire mtns in MA and the Hudson Valley/Catskills in NY. It won’t be cheap necessarily but there’s some big parcels available and I can get a foothold if bitcoin runs like I hope…

I've been working on that here in Aus for years, trying to get my brother and friends involved. Finally one of my friends is now looking real hard and making offers on land. I'm now not in the best position to jump in, but the idea is going. Hopefully it'll be a little freedom reserve.

There is plenty of planning to be done, which you can invest in. One of the realizations I had with the group I was in was that "we're building a town". What are the town rules? How will disputes be resolved? What happens when someone wants to leave/cash-out? Not to mention planning of infrastructure, how will the land pay for itself, etc.

The great thing about liberty, is that you are both free to make an agreement. If servitude is what you're looking for, then go for it. Otherwise, make a sensible offer to see if he's willing to be sensible. If not, you've dodged a bullet before it was loaded.

Herding cats, cobber! Feel for you, been there, epic fail but didn't lose money so I guess okay. Have a written contract and an exit clause in the contract no matter what. Which state you guys in?

collaborative custody of land. Why not organize bio capital (soil, trees, water,..) similar to how we organize monetary capital. Living matter (biomass) is natures (low time pref) currency of (chemically) stored (sun) energy. Accumulating natural wealth is a net win for all life.

Check out @Satlantis And we are living in a small rural town where people are searching local resources and then renting spaces and building things like small vege gardens and more. It’s coming together in an advocate way through an existing town.