Oddbean new post about login | logout When you read fiction of any genre, do you tend to gravitate toward authors and/or main characters of your own gender, or not really and it’s fine either way? In my reading, it seems about 50/50. Plenty of male and female authors I like, and usually there are a lot of major characters of both genders. Statistically, women read novels more than men, but it varies by genre, eg romance vs military fiction. I guess part of why my reading is somewhere in the middle is I don’t read pure romance books or pure military books and the like, but rather read adventure/fantasy/sci-fi books that often have one or more romantic arcs, one or more action scenes including sometimes military scenes, heists, crimes, etc. I listened to this podcast on how to write novels that men would like out of curiosity, and it was interesting. Basically, their thesis is that too much current writing advice is geared to writing for women, so male readers kind of get left out, but then authors pick up on that and write for men, and they do a lot of volume. I think that’s largely correct. However, I also found the advice a bit black and white, like that most women want character development and details of feelings while most men want achievement and details of things. My assumption is that the majority of men and women readers want both of those things. So what are your thoughts? Do you tend to gravitate toward authors and characters of your gender or not really? https://youtu.be/da3NiVM3IcQ
I haven't noticed a bias in my reading but I will pay more attention to the next books I gravitate towards!
Recent novels I’ve read are a mix. Here are a couple female authors I’ve enjoyed lately. I love Emily St. John Mandel. Station 11 is amazing and Glass Hotel is good too. Also The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August by Claire North was great.
Male here… quickly looking at my bookshelf, it seems the novels I gravitate towards have male main characters.
Speaking as a male, I just listened to a fiction audiobook today actually by a female author with female main characters. It makes no difference to me personally, though I do tend to find myself listening to a fair bit of female authors and books that I might not typically have chosen. But perhaps that's because I get them from podcast recs and then from the library, and then speed up everything, which grossly affects my reading, so even books I'm not that into, or that haven't been written 'for me' as the audience, I still speed through in a day. Interesting question.
I don’t know how to tell you what I like in a book. A great story I guess. 🤷♂️ Character development is important.
I used to like Lee Carre books. Spy stuff. Over the top buy not too much.
Ender’s Game had both character development and details of feelings as well as achievements and details of things. Ditto for the three books that followed in the Ender’s Quartet. In my opinion, the first two were more about actions and the last two were more about feelings. Like a 40/60 then 60/40. Maybe that’s why the last two didn’t achieve the same level of recognition.
Both. I enjoy both, because they are usually distinctive in writing style about same thing. Good example is R.E. Feist where first books about Riftwar are his, but then the perspective of other side is from J. Wurts mostly I believe. I enjoyed all of it.
Interesting. Doing research as an author I read that people tend to want to see themselves reflected. I write nostr:nprofile1qqsxugjjylrmak4hvhn5k2ddnqgvsereprgq9sdeunp3jhxa58dgafcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhskum55f with a protagonist who has a different gender than me. Alexis. She's badass.
Arthur C Clarke is definitely my favorite fiction author then Vonnegut
thank you for zapping me even though I realized I didnt answer the question you posed at all 🤣
A lot of my favorite fiction is written by men. The female works I've most enjoyed are probably somewhat unusual in their intensity of focus on ideas, things & obstacles rather than feelings, people and relationships. eg. Ayn Rand, Andre Norton and JK Rowling So far as I can tell, Harry Potter undergoes no real character development and his only real virtue is bravery. I stopped reading somewhere in the 5th book so maybe I missed out but that was my impression, anyway.
I agree with you; I think most people would want both. I haven’t had time to read in a long time, but when I did, I liked books that were more fantasy, adventure, or paranormal, with some romance in them. I do believe advice books are more geared toward women, but these days they cater to both genders. I think men might lean more toward achievement and detail, but not all; some would want both.
I honestly can't recall many female fiction authors or characters and I studied comparative lit. There was Margaret Atwood (Can Con) and a few poets whose names escape me. I tend, in fiction, to veer towards sci-fi classics like Bradbury, historical fiction like Clavell, or (and my favourite) philosophical existentialism or psychedelic lit like Hesse, Kafka, and Murakami. I read your book, Broken Money... I don't read a lot of fiction these days. Maybe I need to seek out some recommendations.
For fiction, I end up reading more from my own gender. For non fiction, which for me is usually about understanding and mastering psychology and mental states, it is much more balanced. The biggest difference I know of comes from the way we play. Girls tend to play facing each other with each other being the focus of the play. Boys tend to play side by side with something external as the focus of the play. That comes through in the stories we like as adults. 2 examples off the top of my head. Seveneves, every character is a woman for a large part of the very long book. The story is still the women together against an external challenge. Written by a man. The Last of Us, TV series I never played the game and can't say. Some very female perspectives are shown, like excitement at finding a box of tampons. Mostly the series is about the main characters side by side against the zombies and against the government. There are a couple of episodes about characters connecting with each other, but that doesn't drive most of the action. It had more balance of both story types than most modern shows, and became extremely popular.
A book I disliked and I assume is written more for men is Shogun by James Clavell. The characters don't feel like real human beings but more like embodiements of certain ideas. And it focuses heavily on tactics (makes sense considering the author is a vet). But then I absolutely love ASOIF and I find George R R Martin focuses more on characters and stories rather than descriptions. Idk if this helps. BTW I'm a man.
I don’t ‘think’ I care about the writer. I had no idea until much later that Ursula Le Guin was even a woman for example, and I’d say many on here would include Atlas Shrugged as a favourite. Regards character I’d probably be more drawn to male characters but when I think of reading GoT it was a young girl and an ugly dwarf that I most routed for. John Galt is the hero in AS but Dagny drives the story. That said, I definitely skip over films and programs that are female led, precisely for the reasons you point out. They are usually consciously emotional and/or romantic, and female led action pics I just assume will be a bit woke and far fetched (whilst knowing this goes for male leads too). So yeah, I’m probably a sexist pig even when I’m trying not to be
Any author as long as they are not pushing an agenda .
Looking at my bookshelves, I see an overwhelming majority of male authors but I don’t think I’ve never chosen a book based on the author’s gender. I used to queue up at midnight for the new Harry Potter books and have read many female SF and fantasy authors, such as Ursula LeGuin and Octavia Butler. I definitely don’t base my reading on the protagonist’s gender. Who would not love Modesty Blaise, Greg Rucka’s Tara Chase or Lyra from His Dark Materials, for example?
If I understand you correctly, you're talking about writing with the reader in mind (I haven't seen the video yet). Personally, in fiction I think it's hard to do without betraying yourself a little. I write because I want to say something that's important to me and writing it is a way of getting it out. I only have the reader in mind when editing. Sometimes my mind wanders to a story that makes sense to me, but not necessarily to the reader. Regarding what I read, I don't have preferences either in the genre of the authors or in that of the characters. Yes, in the story. Btw, the closest I come to a romantic novel is with Jane Austen and the Bronte sisters.
Never cared about who is the author. I usually skip the "About the author" bit at the beginning of books, and come back to read it after I've finished the book. I don't care about the protagonists' genders either, or their sexual orientation for that matter. I just want to read a good book.
I’ve never considered this in regards to my own tastes. I just want the book to be good regardless of who wrote it or what it’s about. But I’ve personally narrated a wide variety: a smutty romance book, a gigachad prepper action book, an action horror sci-fi book, a spooky asylum horror book, 1960s era sci-fi short story collection, noir, etc. Women authors tend to give more emphasis on feelings (story), male authors tend to give more emphasis on events (plot). But that’s obviously not mutually exclusive just a slight tendency. The male authors I’ve worked with typically (but not always) write romantic relationships from a very male lens even if the characters are female. Like, the uncle of the main female character flexes his bicep and he’s buff so she responds with, “oMg, HoW aRe YoU sTiLl SiNgLe?!” and it felt out of touch, it a kinda endearing way. In my experience, (and I confirmed this by asking most of the women I work with, which is a lot; I work in a spa), women typically don’t care about dude bro muscles. A coworker even said, “yeah, dad bod all the way, I don’t care!” Oddly enough, hands and forearms were the most attractive physics element of men. Anyways, tangent aside, that more boyish perspective came more from an older set of make authors I worked with. The 1960s sci-fi and noir had some sexism typical to that era but nothing outrageous, in my opinion. The younger male authors I’ve worked with usually have a less juvenile way of presenting romance and sexuality (Christopher Robertson does a great job of this). Lyn, this is why I love looking at and responding to your posts! You ask wonderful questions
Most of what I've listened to is by and above men. I've assumed that's just because that's what seems to be what's the norm in the fantasy/sci-fi genre. I don't know if I only noticed when things get to an extreme, but I've I've definitely stopped reading/listening to/watching stuff because it was either a list of events about which I didn't really care because the characters that were involved were insufficiently fleshed out so they didn't feel like real people, or nothing was happening, it was just a bunch of annoying people who were all worked up about nothing particular.
My reading has certainly evolved over the years. I’m an avid fiction reader and a lot of my favorite books historically are written by white men - I think a lot of that has to do with what was published historically. I have a penchant for the doorstopper and most of my favorites fall into that category (Pynchon, DFW, Gaddis, Bolaño etc). But that has changed a lot in recent years largely due to the wealth of translated fiction that is available and continuing to be published and more widely available. To answer your question, the primary function that fiction serves (for me) is building empathy towards human experience, and reading translated fiction (by both men and women) is a rich and rewarding way to do that. There is so much good writing out there! I’m interested in “real” characters. A good writer writes what they know and have experienced and doesn’t try to appropriate someone else’s experience, I truly believe we can sense that in writing - does it feel honest and authentic? So I make an effort to read as widely as possible. A bit rambly, but I love reading and talking about fiction so I appreciate the question.
Please write a sci-fi book! Octavia Butler does some great writing from both a male and female perspective I think!
Yes. She does transgressional sci fi!
Of course if I read fiction where the main character is similar to me, it resonates more. But my goal for reading is to experience something new, so I have been seeking women authors/characters since they have been historically less represented and the ideas/concepts feel more fresh and forward thinking.
didn‘t care before, but I avoid entertainment media that tries to push a message instead of pleasing the customer. So for recent literature female lead is a tiny red flag, lesbian a big one and transgender a definite no no.
btw.: matrix - great transgender story from a time when creators still had respect for their audience
I definitely do. William Gibson, Neal Stephenson, Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Daniel Suarez, Philip K. Dick. The only female novelist I think I've read was JK Rowling. And it was pretty meh. Meawhile my wife reads a lot of female novelists; mostly young adult fantasy stuff. So while it's not normative, it does seem possible that it is normal, statistically speaking. Looking forward to you breaking the pattern that I only just realized I have.
If you like those authors we are bros.
I'm male, never had any issues with a protagonist being female, I think my reading is probably about equal in the regard. I will say that I have, in recent memory, put down two books by women; both because they were focused on romance and jealousy to the extent that the actual plot was underdeveloped and had pacing problems. I can't think of a female author I really like off the top of my head... Sara Seager's memoir was amazing though: The Smallest Lights in the Universe.
One important things I found missing in most books is the learning aspect. Entertainment OK, but teach me new things especially the ones I need to survive the future. I am not talking buy gold or btc, most ppl here know that. More advanced stuff. Gas pipelines for example as inflation hedges. What did other people's do when they had to leave their belongings and flee dictators? How did they carry that value with them. Emotional compartmentilization. Etc etc.. we need to learn thos as we will most likely need it.
Are you a Dickhead??? (As in Philip K. Dick) I've always imagined you to be. The last novel he ever wrote was also the only one he wrote as a female narrator POV. It happens to be my favorite - The Transmirgration of Timothy Archer