We’re living in the future. 

 I'm hoping for Pokemon on Gameboy and then Doom 😄 

 We have doom in notepad.  

 There are still some gaps to fill. Robin wants to use this to create a federation which cannot steal your money as long as one of them is honest. Here is a design I think is close to working: the federation members would all act as verifiers who agree to challenge a prover (who holds all sidechain deposits) if he doesn't process withdrawal requests correctly.

As long as one of them does so honestly, that honest party could take the prover's money and distribute it to withdrawer's honestly if the prover does not do so.

If this design worked it would improve the trust assumptions of federated sidechains, which currently rely on an honest majority, so that instead they only rely on a single honest party -- which could be you. You could just be one of the verifiers, and then you only need to trust yourself (and bitcoin's standard trust assumptions, e.g. 51% of miners are not censoring your transactions) 

 I can't wait to read the details on how this 2wp would work.  

 Here's Paul Sztorc's response from telegram:

Paul Sztorc (beware impostor accounts):
Yeah but this only applies to the people who have sat down with each other when the chain started

New people can't join -- or if they do they are trusting the other original people

Also doesn't solve the lopsided fee problem

And, as always, 51% hash can steal via censorship -- but no strength in numbers effect for BitVM 2wp

So I doubt people will use BitVM for 2wp 

 Agreed. Please dumb down 😊 

 Idk enough to confirm much else, but I know a proper 2 way peg would mean trustless on & off ramps into sidechains. 

 It allows a huge new scope for sidechains to interact with the Bitcoin timechain. More options for people to build on while using bitcoin to secure it by locking them and using tokens associated to those coins. Big moves forward potentially for scaling 

 Good times basically 🤙 

 Unclear. Need a workable design first 😅 

 Fuu 

 Will this lead to chain data bloat like Ordinals, NFTs on-chain?  Got to keep it lean to encourage lots of modes, right? 

 Nah that’s nothing to do with BitVM. Everything is explicitly off chain in that model. 

It’s inscriptions that are the horrible bloat storm in that regard. That said a better NFT system built with BitVM may take share away from inscriptions, which would be positive. 

 What’s Bitvm? Been hearing it tossed around. 

 It's a virtual computer that can run programs created as boolean logic circuits

What's cool about it is, these programs can be embedded into bitcoin addresses, so that anyone who sends money to a bitvm address can only spend it if they correctly run the program embedded into the address

And the program can theoretically be anything -- it could be Photoshop, or Doom, or a copy of the ethereum virtual machine, or anything. If a computer can run it, you can in theory convert it to work in bitvm, and then basically pay someone to run that program, or get them to put up some money as a pledge that they *will* run the program correctly, then take their money if they don't  

 Interesting, is there a BIP I can read about it? 

 no, but there is this: https://t.me/bitVM_chat/58 

 Yes it works for me but it takes like 5 minutes

It's a very big program and I can't believe my VM implementation can even handle it

(I don't think it would be able to handle a proper dispute) 

 Ok thanks. Will try again with a mood powerful setup. Great if wrinkles can be ironed out! 

 Yes