Oddbean

Nowdays banks can't bankrupt (after the gold rule abandoned in Breton wiods) because the central bank backs them up. It is a political only decision to let a bank bankrupt, like for example in the case of Greece where Dragi, the head of ECB, left illegally the greek banks without backing them up.

This is such a good and interesting question. Presumably the central bank is watching the market and therefore it takes actions. So the real question from what you said is, "can the markets be self regulated?" We already have this answer by Alan Greenspan himself, when he said that there was a flaw of letting the market forces to play out. This is the analogue of hearing Marx saying there was a flaw in his socialist theory. So no, markets can't be self regulated and therefore central banks must regulate. Free economy doesn't work...

But, it does work. It works better than any central bank system ever has. There is historical precedent for this and looking at those facts, it becomes undeniable to know that not having a central bank is actually less volatile over time while also allowing more people thy freedom of not being subject to inflating currencies (which ALL central banks do after some time). Central banking in anathema to all personal liberty.

Wait! 😀 What works? The free economy or the central-less bank system? In fact both don't work. About the free economy... Do you know what free economy is? Free economy is the economy that market forces play out free of regulations . This is what free evonomy is. It has nothing to do with freedom. About the central - less bank system, it doesn't work because otherwise banks and the system will collapse at some. The central bank system works, but only for the oligarchs. Basically nothing works for more than 30 years or so...

Free markets, specifically markets that are completely unregulated, do work, and work much better, even though they are chaotic in nature. Any regulated market causes significant inefficiencies and therefore increases costs to both producers and consumers. Regulating commerce is one of the easiest means to control people, and therefore, human freedom can easily be measured by how regulated a market they operate in (or, in most cases, allowed to operate in).

In some theory maybe. Do we have an example? Because what i think, is that unregulated markets have only one law, the jungle law where whoever has more money gets the benefits and creates monopolies and sucks all the money to the point of collapse unless some regulation or intervention saves the day from a further collapse. Like in the case of AIG which has been saved with the money of the people because the market was unregulated and has been left free. There is no freedom in free markets, only debt and slavery. The fact is though, that we don't have so far a formula of regulations that gives a solution immune even to external factors. Free markets are not a solution though, they are a problem.

No. From many periods in history. I can highly recommend reading The Bitcoin Standard as the author clearly shows that free markets prosper all, especially when the money is free of centralized controls. There will always be winners and losers. I prefer systems that benefit the most people and are based on mutual consent. (anything other than that is not acceptable from any solid moral standpoint, IMO)

I haven't read the bitcoin standard and i don't think i will read it unless some example from some period of time is presented to me that shows that unintervened free markets benefit all. To my view free markets clearly benefit just a handful of people and even then an intervention is needed to avoid total destruction and i gave a recent example. In fact, we have central banks exactly because the markets have been left more free than they should.

No, we have central banks because fiat allows for the elitist pricks to extract ever more value from ever more people. I'm not going to try to summarize what is explained very well in a few chapters of that book. But, there have been times in recorded history where sound money prospered everyone who used said sound money. Sure, not everyone benefits equally, but, it's better than the system we currently have where everyone except those who control the central banks and the large militaries.

For me it too is based on consent. It is not based on which system "makes everyone more equal" but rather I choose which system I like based on "consent". With the follows, the concensual trading of goods. I'm pro-market because it is a product of that thinking, not because it is "better" - i.e. if some people lose out (as is life) then I would still be pro-market.

The standard of consent I use is informed consent. This protects people who are hoodwinked or defrauded in a system where consent is the standard and contract law is the Supreme law of the land. People who exploit others are not acting in a moral capacity and will, eventually, be exposed, and, in a freer system, exposed faster. This is the beauty of things like BTC and nostr. They cut out everything that isn't consentual, and are therefore, IMO, some of the best devised means of consentual transmission of ideas and value.

Well, for example. There would be nothing wrong from you creating a covenant community on your own property (land) where by people admitted must follow your rules. There would be nothing wrong with a commune that existed in that sorts at all. Would I join such a community? No, but I wouldnt stop it from existing.

I will look about Orania. I like examples. I can't speak for the US either. nostr:nprofile1qqsqdzwltpr635ehdzfd52tz947qlhq77x2c7j7yguwep9n258k2nuspz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qg7waehxw309ahx7um5wgkhqatz9emk2mrvdaexgetj9ehx2ap0vqtr53 can. And btw thanks, the beave, for another nice discussion.

So Orania is interesting indeed. Especially since they are calvinists. I hate calvinists 😀. I need to know more about their economic system. Except the fact that they get interest from deposits from South African banks, do they have loans and ursury in general? Is their discount voucher system something like the Argentinian truecke, only more digital? If they don't have loans and ursury in general, then this is very, very interesting.