Oddbean

Hey @ketobeejay Thanks for the question! Think of the “Private express trust” (PET) as the vehicle or framework… An unincorporated business entity (UBO) and (PMA) private member association are like seats in the car. They are not mutually exclusive and can in fact be mutually inclusive! A private express trust can be written in a way which it includes UBO and PMA aspects. The thing to remember is the three tiers of “law”. 1. Equitable 2. Common 3. Contract By their nature PETs are equitable and common, in that they are treated as living entities. As such they are based upon “intent” and the grantor and exchanger get to write the rules / laws of the trust. Thus, they can be written in a way that they are able to contract with others. This is the UBO/PMA aspect

I've been observing the concept of PMAs and similar things for the last 3-4 years now and I never jumped the gun because I feel like having one puts me from this little unknown entity (where I am now, quietly selling things to people who want them) right smack into the radar of govt purview, and while I still might *get* that they're private and supposed to shelter all that I do, business-wise, the fact that I would have one freaks me out for that reason. But I'm attracted to the idea and would like nothing more than to tell people I make and sell XYZ, but you have to know the password lol. (I've been making & selling jerky and other prepared foods to people online & IRL, and yes, I *could* get a cottage license, but I'd prefer none of that).

I understand that. It's not a question of I need convincing of what's best, I need to see it in action. I want to find who else is doing the same type of business (similar product & market/audience) and how they structured theirs to follow that model.

Why would you find “that” if it’s private? If you are looking for structure to model, I’d attend Seth’s masterclass or watch the replay. I provided the link prior. The very nature of playing in the private sandbox is that it’s hard to see it in action…people typically aren’t going around bringing attention to their private items. Furthermore, if they are a PMA the laws (rules) of their PET may prevent such disclosure… If the webinar idea doesn’t suit you I’d recommend investing a couple of books (warning they are not cheap) but the company (Trust) that produced the books has literally been sued time and time again by the IRS and won every time with exception of a sentence here or there that was ordered to be removed from the book. The Art of Passing the Buck, Vol I; Secrets of Wills and Trusts Revealed https://a.co/d/bIMze1K And The Art of Passing the Buck, Vol 2 https://a.co/d/aYQazPc

Ok...SO...again sandboxes...Which do you want to play in? In many respects one can choose to play in both...for example a PET can "own" an LLC...question becomes how does that help YOU...it may or may not depending on your scenario and ultimately what you are trying to move closer towards! Before I get to my opinion (for myself) and based upon the research and resources I've leaned into...one is actually safer in a PET because it is private. Public cannot sue Private. The Public must cross over (expose themselves to the rest of the Public) if they want to come after a PET. Now...there are over 1400 cases, some of which have gone to Supreme Court, and in all but ~5, the privacy of the PET has been upheld! The ~5 cases that "lost" were due to mismanagement of the Trust by the Trustee...in essence the Trustee(s) did something criminal that affected the Beneficiaries (or those that help Capital Units representing their interest in the Trust). So for me, a PET specifically structured as a UBO / PMA (aspects of both) is very safe (low risk). Because IF you get on the Public entity's radar...a simple "prove jurisdiction and venue" letter will typically get them to back off as they don't want to expose themselves and increase their risk which they won't do beyond a certain point...in particular for small timers (like you and me). Now...if we had businesses doing 100's of Millions then there is extra protection steps we can take...but 99% of "us" won't need that. === I have a buddy who has recently ran a couple free master classes on this topic and I'd recommend you sign up just to attend and learn about the above. He does have an offer at the end that probably won't make financial sense based upon how much I know he charges...but it will be a great STUDY opportunity. http://nottaxsecrets.com Also poke around Seth's FB profile and you will dig up info (be sure to read comments and/or DM him ) https://www.facebook.com/swellsworth