Oddbean

Look, if somehow i managed to convince all the nostr devs and folks managing the nostr nip process to do this, then you could just make versions of the apps and spec which didn't do that. We're an open source permissionless decentralized protocol. Why is it you get to reply to me but i can't reply back to you? Do you not like the @Reportinator events? Why not make a bot that reports all the reports. Or use a client that doesn't choose to read them. You're choosing to see this stuff you're upset with. Just don't.

Are you honestly still not understanding. you had two choices for how to proceed in a decentralized environment. You chose central service and censorship. Thats you. wheter you wanna admit to yourself or not. You chose central when you did not have to. you chose filter when you could have chosen client side functionality. you did that bro. Not me. You did it publicly and we see you. You tried to be arrogant and send me to watch your 49 minute talk instead of having the conversation. I almost had to shame you into it because deep down you know how we would all react. This is the way with censors. You have no idea how many of you I have met and fired from prjects and turfed from positions once I sniffed it. The world has changed. I am no longer theonly one that sees you lot. You guys overplayed the safety hand badly. If I catch you in my stream I will destroy your infrastructure. So do what you do but stay outta my stream.

You've spent more time replying to me on here than it would have taken to watch the talk. But again, it's your choice about what media you consume. Do you want the bot to be taken offline? Do you think that content reports are inappropriate speech on Nostr? Do you have any idea how Nostr works? @Reportinator is not a centralized service. It's a single nostr identity which posts content reports on what it sees on the nostr network to it's own relay. Where in the Nostr spec does it say, you must go and read content from Reportinator. Or you must remove content from your relay because of what's published by some random bot? Where does it say that your open source nostr client should request Reportinator events form the Reportinator relay and use them to shape what you see? How is any of that centralization? The code for this is open source, running on our servers, nobody has to pay attention to it. https://github.com/planetary-social/cleanstr In fact, most clients and relays completely ignore 1984 events. But why don't you make a version that labels any content you feel is woke so that you can filter that out of your feed. I think that'd be a good thing, it's not what I want to run, but I've created the tools for you to do that.

Woke is funny. I am enjoying the heat death of the wokieverse immensely . see how a non censor behaves? I would never dream of filtering speech for others. I would have chosen tools for the user. You are what you are bro. You are just making it worse.

This conversation reminds me of Karl Popper’s paradox of intolerance, wherein the only thing a tolerant person should not tolerate is intolerance because it leads to the end of tolerance. I think (maybe I’m wrong) what @Pepe_NOSTRos is arguing is that this kind of bot is not simply another instance of free speech or a project on the protocol, but is antithetical to the ethos of the protocol itself. That not anything can be tolerated on this open protocol, and this is pushing it. Because no one can stop you, the alternative is to point out how antithetical this truly is and make it reputational suicide to push it, ironically reporting *you* at the meta level for creating a reporting bot. Once people see this kind of intolerance will not be tolerated, they will cease trying to report people, for the “greater good”, for “public safety” “for the women” “to save the children” for “national security” or whatever other noble reason one can conjure. That doesn’t mean women being harassed on nostr isn’t a real issue to solve, only that it has to be done in a way that’s in keeping with the ethos of the protocol. But it’s possible I’m misunderstanding.

This also touches upon the very definition of "intolerance"; Karl Popper has been erroneously or even wickedly invoked ten thousand times and his message twisted nearly beyond recognition by the Twitter mob (etc.) most of which have likely never read his works and reasoning. Irt. The reporting bot/system: Automated tools must be crafted with extreme care and likewise run with extremely pernicious oversight, since they are extremely powerful. A script is "awake" 24 hours a day and can react to incoming data every second of those 24 hours. A human needs rest for at least 8 hours per day, and to evaluate a situation at hand, a good long while to read what has been said and done, and the context surrounding it, to make a proper judgment. Machine tools enables making potentially very serious errors at the speed of silicon, while the human operators or originators are asleep or absent and not able to stop them. #thoughts #nostr #grownostr nostr:nevent1qqs0ns974zq2gqdd63zcxmw703cal9w9pxeqe2yukfdf4uw2hng4cpqpz3mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wcpzq6knu235sx9320yp7jx93azw2xv70d8u3klr0qg2qqxuu0yska6qqvzqqqqqqydqc6s2

100%. This is also why it is important not to establish a "monoculture" on filtering. Centralised systems are monocultures by necessity, but even decentralised ones can become so if most users cannot have tools to customise them. My little system was built with the thought of preventing that, but i havent had many people try it yet