Oddbean

The only factor that keeps #Monero from being the new #Bitcoin (meaning the #crypto gold standard) is comparable price performance. If at any point in this cycle Monero reclaims the 0.007374 #BTC per #XMR price level from this cycle start, then what follows will be history.

The only argument #Bitcoin maxis have to justify favoring #BTC versus #XMR is price performance and I can’t disagree that it had been historically true but I think the momentum is shifting. The shutdown of Samouraï will be seen as a major turning point because Bitcoin has shown to be less attack-proof than #Monero in an adversarial environment. Monero price is showing a lot of resilience lately even though #crypto markets are dumping. I think XMRBTC pair will end up higher at the end of this cycle than at the start of it. Also, I have no doubt that the XMR drawdown will be less than the BTC one at the end of the next bear cycle.

Bitcoin grew because people like us saw its value early on. For some years now it ran on hopes to be bought up by its enemies. Need to tell them that this won't gonna happen. Not without the enemy taking full control at least. Monero is the barbarian patiently waiting at the gate for its time to come. While fiat resemblece control and in its ultimate state, death. Monero resembles the vibrancy of life. As humanity chooses to end the death cult/satanism it will naturally flock to money that represents the same values.

It is really hard for normies to buy monero. The persecution has been quite heavy this year, managing to get it delisted from Binance and then forcing to close localmonero.co We really need a decentralized way for normies to exchange fiat with XMR that is bulletproof.

I don’t disagree but there are still many exchanges on which you can swap Bitcoin for Monero. If a user can’t even do this then yes he’s a normie but normies wouldn’t understand why they would need Monero in the first place.

Normies need it for donations. Many groups with wrong opinions are now asking for donations in monero to protect both the donators and to keep privacy on the donated values. It is difficult for donators to convert bitcoin to monero on some unknown chinese site. In the past was simple enough, head to localmonero and find a local dealer.

I love Monero but I see it more as an alternative for people who want greater privacy rather than something that could ever replace Bitcoin. Bitcoin is digital gold and will continue to be such for a very long time.

I’m specifically referring to the price here because that’s the element that keeps most people from being as involved in #Monero than they are in #Bitcoin. Maybe Monero is underpriced (or Bitcoin relatively overpriced) but at the end of the day the price dynamic matters when deciding or not to hold one of this #crypto.

I think there’s no point in comparing. I mean both share some characteristics like sovereignty, etc. But when it comes to the price it’s obvious that bitcoin has bigger market share (for good and bad reasons). Ain’t enough that #monero has proved its “value”, for some cases/people/circumstances even way bigger than #bitcoin and that also has proved to be a decent store of #value

That's a really good question. For me, Bitcoin is the one because of how it's thoroughly decentralized and has a robust network alongside the value that BTC holds. It's absolutely not a maxi thing for me, I just feel it makes more sense to use both BTC and XMR for different use cases.

Well, I'm talking more about the sheer number of nodes Bitcoin has. So many nodes, thus so decentralized that it's absolutely impossible to shut down. Monero could get to that point at some time down the road, though, to be completely fair. I just don't personally see that happening any time soon, considering the delistings and poor value performance.

The number of nodes is not as important as the decentralization of the hashrate and the money supply. First, non-minning nodes can be sybil-attacked so it’s not technically possible to know how many unique node participants a network has. Both #Bitcoin and #Monero have a healthy number of nodes, multiplying these numbers wouldn’t add substantial value to the network. When it comes to the hashrate, it has been concentrating in the Bitcoin network which is a concerning trend. The barrier to entry is now so high that mostly nation-states like actors enter the market hence, the future decentralization of the hashpower relies on those actors competing with each others. Due to privacy features of Monero, it’s hard to know for sure how concentrated the Monero hashrate is (which can be an argument against Monero by itself) but at least participating in mining remains accessible to anyone. Regarding the money supply, it seems pretty obvious that Bitcoin is seeing greater concentration of the its money supply than Monero. This is especially true since the launch of the ETF or the growing use of intermediary hubs to transact or store bitcoins. Again, hard to tell how concentrated the Monero supply is, but its growing use as a P2P payment method and desintermediation from the banking system decreasing favor its decentralization.

If it's not apparent by my posts, I'm definitely far from an expert on these things. I just go by the research I find and, well, it's difficult to find good research when there are genuine cultish resources on both sides. It's part of why I aim to use both if I ever find a way to obtain them without KYC (all of the no-KYC methods I've looked into seem to fall through for me). I also do plan to look into XMR mining to see if that's a possible option for me.