Oddbean

Here’s my Dune part one and two summary. Correct me where I might be missing something. Spoilers abound. The Harkonnens have been mining Spice on Arrakis for decades, and have become richer than even the Emperor since Spice is the most critical thing around (and despite its enormous expense and universe-wide demand, nobody can synthesize it elsewhere for some reason, even with nearly infinite resources, why?). The Emperor, however, is more threatened by the Atreides’ growing influence than he is threatened by the Harkonnens (why?) and so he plots with the Harkonnens to destroy House Atreides. As part of this, he kicks the Harkonnens off of Arrakis and puts the Atreides there, but it’s a trap (cue “it’s a trap” meme). Visuals and music are amazing, and remain that way throughout the films. The plot starting point is reasonable, but starts with a flaw imo: everyone is miserable already. In LOTR, we get to start with the happy Shire, which sets a good baseline for a happy world that the characters end up fighting to protect and going through hell for, which lets us understand what they are fighting for. But in Dune, most people are already kind of miserable from the starting point. Harkonnens are all serious and mean and focused on domination and have a shitty world with no sun, Paul and Jessica are all serious and doing life-or-death tests with their Bene Gesserit stuff, all the Bene Gesserits are hyper-serious, the Emperor and his daughter are all stressed out by politics, etc. The only chill people with good vibes are Leto and Duncan. It's unclear what anyone is fighting for, really. The Bene Gesserits plans are measured in centuries but none of those plans ever lead to Alright so the Atredies go to Arrakis, aware of the political danger but trying to strengthen their house. Harkonnens and the Emperor’s forces attack them and easily win. For some reason despite all of this advanced technology, at the end of the day a bunch of dudes line up with swords and have a big sword brawl (why?). Due to the Bene Gesserits’ influence, Paul and Jessica are technically spared, but have to fight to truly survive and escape. They join the Fremen, which are the perpetually repressed people of Arrakis and the only other people in the movie (eg Stilgar) who are sometimes chill and with good vibes. The Bene Gesserit have been purposely spreading the propaganda on Arrakis that Paul is a messiah, which is a result of years of bloodline management. Duncan dies like a champ to keep Paul safe. Paul as a scrawny kid easily beats the hard desert man Janis in a fight (which seems kind of bullshit to me), which along with the messiah prophecy secures his initial place among the Fremen. In the second movie, Jessica and Paul further secure their place in Fremen society, and there is growing conflict over the messianic prophecy. Jessica pushes the prophecy narrative and Chani pushes back on it. That’s a good plotline, imo. But in terms of execution, it feels like the fantasy of an angsty teenage edgelord boy. (“My biggest fear is that I have so much goddamn power that I might misuse it and hurt people!”) Paul leads a series of guerrilla strikes against the Harkonnens. Paul reunites with Gurney, and Gurney reveals where the family nukes are, which is kind of a Deus ex machina plot line. For some convenient reason, Paul’s great great grandfather or whatever hid the family nukes on Arrakis (why and how?) Paul and Chani fall in love, but Jessia and Paul drink the worm juice which gives them memories of the past including the fact that Jessia and Paul are descended from the leader of the Harkonnens (via the Bene Gesserit bloodline planning scheme). So Paul is quite the Mary Sue at this point, being descended from Atreides and Harkonnens, and trained by both the Bene Gesserits and the Fremen. All parts of the Venn Diagram center around him. Meanwhile, the Harkonnens replace the jacked nephew played by Bautista with a different scrawny model-looking nephew who is even meaner for some reason. And they amp up this new dude with an arena fight where he ::checks notes:: beats two drugged captives and barely beats one normal captive. So they build him up as a psychopath and a not-so-bad fighter but not exactly anything too badass really. Paul writes a letter to the emperor to come to Arrakis and he does (why? This seems too easy). The Emperor punishes the leader of the Harkonnens (which the Harkonnens just kind of accepted without pushback, like all of their plans are for shit now suddenly). Paul launches his plot-convenient nukes at the emperor and sends sandworms at him and easily wins (why is the Emperor of the Known Universe so weak now?) After the battle is won, Paul also beats the Harkonnen nephew dude in a fight, and gets to be the new emperor. So he wins every fight he is in, has the magic voice, can survive all the poisons that others cannot, has all the best noble genes, but also has the kindness instilled in him from his father, one of the only chill dudes in the story. But the other Houses object, so it’s war time! And Chani leaves because Paul wants to marry the emperor’s daughter for political reasons and thinks the messianic stuff is bullshit. Everyone is kind of miserable at the end, which is basically where they started to begin with. The few people who started happy were killed off, and the Fremen are generally happier now but that’s foreshadowed by Paul’s visions to eventually end badly for them. One of my friends that came to see it with me and she summed it up as “five hours of non-stop angst, kind of exhausting really.”

@LynAlden sorry, maybe I should explain my comment... It was a little surreallism and not a shot at you. Dune (older version) is a hell of movie. It captivated large audiences and had in its own right their own cultists. Much like star wars, harry potter and the princess bride. You can't really explain this unless it's in hindsight. There are movies which are much bigger than their own production costs. Now, these remakes are surprisingly good. The story was kept the same, the photography was really too notch and they didn't mess up the spirit. This is highly unusual, agree? A remake of a cult movie which doesn't completely destroy the memory of the parent movie and book? I think that's really what makes these remakes so cool.

Very good (and funny!) summary overall. I've read the book so some of your questions are answered there, things that the movie just couldn't get to. The biggest departure of the movie from the book was the ending IMO where Chain rides off into the sunset on a sandworm. In the book she accepts the political move. It's quite interesting as this is literally the last line of the whole 800+ page book so I found it quite surprising (I'm still undecided how I feel about it): “Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she’ll live as less than a concubine—never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she’s bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine—history will call us wives.”

Dude, the guy rides sand worms. That’s the real point of the whole thing. Sand worms with sharp butthole mouths, the size of freaking sky scraper, and he can ride them. That’s the story. All the other stuff is just buildup for sand worm surfing🏄

1. Spice on Arrakis is a parallel to oil in the middle east. Another point to this is that the technology is not really important to what Dune is about. The other thing is there are no computers/AI/thinking machines. 2. The Emperor is threatened by the Atreides for two reasons I think are mentioned in the movies. He is supposed to be jealous of Duke Leto, because he is a popular voice among the Houses and people admire him. The Atreides are also supposed to be great and loyal fighters and the book I believe describes Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho as some of the best fighters. 3. As far as everyone being miserable I don't really know how to respond. I think Frank Herbert was a cynical kind of person and I think that is reflective in the fact that everyone is vying for political power. Some just do it in different ways, Harkonnens are just violent, Bene Gesserit do their bloodline and body control training, etc. 4. As far as Paul beating Janis I think this is something in the book that was left out in the movie is that the Fremen are excellent at surviving the desert and knowing the desert better than the current occupants of Arrakis. They are not necessarily warriors at the beginning because if they were they would have already gained control of Arrakis. Meanwhile Paul has been highly trained by some of the best fighters in the universe. 5. As far as "angsty teenage edgelord boy" I just can't agree with that given he is having vivid visions of billions of people dying across the universe because he gains power. These visions are fueled by spice which is psychoactive and everywhere on Arrakis including in the food. As well as the worm poison which is highly concentrated spice so even more psychoactive. 6. When the Atreides left Arrakis they took everything including the atomics which all the houses have. 7. The Emperor comes easily because everyone has underestimated the Fremen and they are not aware that Paul is Muad'dib. 8. The ease with which the Emperor is defeated is two things I think. Frank Herbert does not do action very much in the books so it was up to Denis Villenueve to add in the action scenes. The other is that the Fremen in the book are trained by Paul and Jessica to become fighters. This is left out in the movies. Between that training and the hardened nature of their people having spent centuries on Arrakis, they are now the best fighters in the Imperium. Final note: I don't think we have to compare anything to LOTR. Some people like magic fantasy land and some people like a cautionary tale about messianic figures and a cynical view of humanity in the future. Some people like both. Idk.

Also, want to add that the Tleilaxu do try and grow sand trout in other deserts in other planets to replicate the spice growth outside of Arrakis. We as Bitcoiners should appreciate that absolute scarcity is not only relegated to digital domains. And it’s science fiction, makes for more thrilling scenarios. In this one scarcity is that sandworms seems to grow in Arrakis and due to that spice happens to be there.

Fair questions and like many films based on books only so much information can be squeezed into a definite screen time. Some of the information is only related in later books but Spice is created as a byproduct of the sandworms and with the infinite resources people have no one has captured and experimented on a mature one to determine the process in which it is created or how it is created. On top of that whichever family is controlling spice mining/production is also in possession of near infinite resources and would be incentivized to remove any threat to their monopoly. The politics of the Dune universe are a balancing act between the Emperor and the CHOAM alliance. Compare it to each noble family owning shares of stock and profiting off of commerce. The Atreides grow in power among the noble houses and train their soldiers (“secretly”) in a martial art that allows them to rival the Sardaukar. With beautiful paranoia that their power is in danger the Emperor works with the Harkonnens to remove the Atreides from the board. (All of these families are related in some way. Baron Harkonnen and Duke Leto are cousins. Everyone is fighting for their own happiness I guess, even I’m not sure so fair point. The Bene Gesserit’s plan is to breed a male who can drink the concentrated spice liquid and gain the ability to see possible future scenarios. Something about how women can only see the past/present but men have a biological difference that would allow them to see the possible futures. They have been secretly placing women in families to breed daughters and combine all the bloodlines. (Jessica’s uncle is the Baron) YAY incest. Fight scene with swords is due to force field tech everyone uses in combat. Stops fast moving objects so bullets won’t just penetrate bodies. “the slow blade” as Gurney mentions early on training Paul. They learn to swordfight instead and this is why during fights it looks like they are pulling punches at the last second. Book delves deeper into this, Paul had foresight and remembers possible conversations with Janis as a mentor and teacher. Also he’s been trained in the super secret martial art since he could walk. the Atreides were taken out for developing this and becoming a threat. So it kinda flows. Nukes weren’t “the families” seems like a bad deus ex machina by the screenwriters. They learn were the Harkonnens had their nukes and take control of them. Paul invites the Emperor, Emperor is arrogant and tries to set a trap for Paul’s trap. Emperor punishes Harkonnens as a symbolic I’m in charge move. Empire is old and not every Emperor is strong, think Rome. The rest is added by the screenwriters. In novel Chani understands Paul marries princess as a power move. He does nothing but ignore her afterwards and dotes on Chani. She gives birth to twins. The Fremen Jihad to spread the word of paul is mentioned but no specifics given. Funny enough you mentioned LOTR and Tolkien didn’t like Herbert’s writing.

You should read the book. It makes things more clear and is actually a very enjoyable read imo. The 6 dune books go well beyond this story - so there is a larger arc to it - which I am currently reading - so I don‘t know too much about it other than then Keynes prophecies might come true. The are shields and laser guns- but those don‘t mix well as it creates a nuclear reaction of some sort. So back to projectiles (bad against shields) and knifes. Can you synthesize gold, no? Why? Everyone fights because it‘s all about power and resources. Much like on earth. Paul might appear more invincible in the movies - not sure. He is actually kind of growing into his powers and skills in the book - not a homerun at all.

There is a lot of the book that the movie couldn't include. Couple that with some very questionable choices in actor and character presentation, (Paul is young but quite masculine and Vladimir Harkonnen is a gluttonous, syphilitic, pederast) The film does make for some questions and very loose ends. That said, it's visually amazing and still fun.

I’m so grateful for this. I just couldn’t get excited about it, (kinda can’t get past Euphoria character and that didn’t help) you just made me so happy about my decision! Thanks for spending the 5 hours. Stoked about Wind and Truth releasing in December!

“(and despite its enormous expense and universe-wide demand, nobody can synthesize it elsewhere for some reason, even with nearly infinite resources, why?)” Yeah… why don’t they make more of that … #Bitcoin if it is so high in demand? 🤣

The sword fighting is based on that personal energy shields are a thing, but 1) The shields block fast-moving objects, so bullet-guns are useless, but slow moving objects, like a carefully placed blade can penetrate. 2) Lasguns (lasers) react with energy shields with explosions that rival atomic blasts, so you don't want to use those of the enemy carries a shield. The movies are AV gems, but they're built on so much lore from the books that even the first movie of three hours has difficulty introducing the concepts and story. Watching the movies really requires that you've read the books to enjoy it somewhat.

Many of your questions are valid but Frank Herbert goes deep on backstory where movie will not be able to. So, a key piece of backstory is missing. Machine computation throughout the whole realm is outlawed. This has a myriad of effects on their society including societal and genetic specialization. Its my favorite book, I hope you'll read it (if you haven't).