You’re not a Bitcoiner until you…
Buy Bitcoin.
But then you’re like wait, I need to get these coins off the exchange.
So you get a hardware wallet.
But then you’re like wait, this is a ledger.
So you get a cold card.
But then you’re like wait, it isn’t using a passphrase.
So you use a passphrase.
But then you’re like wait this isn’t multisig and multisig would be better.
So you buy 4 more coldcards and set up a multisig.
But then you’re like wait I can’t just do coldcards I have to guard against supply chain attacks.
So you buy a ledger again and probably a bitbox too.
But then you’re like wait, I haven’t geographically distributed these.
So you disperse them throughout the country.
But then you’re like wait, what about jurisdictional risk?
So you disperse them to multiple countries.
But then you’re like wait, what if I was tracked as I was placing the hardware wallets?
So you…
There’s actually no end.
It just keeps going like that forever.
Congrats you’re a Bitcoiner now lol 😂
You forgot the breakout where you forget your paraphrase for 30 seconds and question your will to live.
Well you just go look for the backup of the passphrase that you obviously made because you're a bitcoiner.
Don’t you remember stamping it on washers a few months ago and burying it out on the back 40 without your phone so it couldn’t be tracked?
Don't know why anyone would do something as dumb as that tbh. A passphrase can be saved in a password manager perfectly safely.
Some people just one and done the cold storage, safeguard their seed phrase, and sleep soundly at night.
Others liquidate everything and blow the money on cocaine and hookers, others collateralize and take yields/loans against their stack. Others venture down shitcoin alley, others get rugged along the way.
All bitcoiners, IMO 🫶🏽
This has been my question…
So much this:
nostr:nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzqxh7p36w84mcf6af8f0rlf255mhtqxfg6ynnnt5t5jpj0p5q3cmdqqspgvmzlcm8xzqth6y7uus0nykts3wa50hn7hkf4z49h5qs0hzdw9q9x69zz
Really need a coldcard on the moon and one on Mars would be extra secure
...then, some nostr client provides you with an nsec with the instructions to guard it with your life; so, you proceed to copy/paste it into 5 other mobile clients and browser extensions.
I think you can actually stop right before multisig, but you need to squeeze transactions somewhere and lightning node
Why? I think the problem is exactly that people stop just before that!
I don't believe multisig and mass adoption go hand in hand:)
Agreed. I think it leads to lost keys and ultimately inaccessible corn. Collaborative companies like Casa have a role on that space, but multi-sig as a whole is difficult for your average user to do right.
So what do you see as a solution for the average user then? If they can't manage a key then single-sig is out of the questions. Leave it on exchanges?
I think a hardware wallet with a secret passphrase is the best self custody solution for most. Jade is excellent for this. They need their device and a pin. Same set up asost bank accounts... You have your debit card and your pin.
And it's not about managing a single key, it's about managing multiple keys. First off, the concept scares most away and I think the complexity increases the chance of failure.
For some, custodial solutions will be the best whether the Bitcoin community wants to accept that or not. People want simple.
I don't believe that the base layer will be used for mass adoption. I do think that the ones that er using the base layer will have significant amounts of purchasing power that it warrants a proper security model such as multisig.
Also, multisig configurations have come a long way and are now much easier to set-up, especially with collaborative custody models.
I would rather have less people using Bitcoin and properly securing it then a lot staying with exchanges or getting lost due to security mismanagement.
Let's see what the developers can bring us in the coming years/decades to improve custody solutions :).
I have to admit I have never used a passphrase except for testing 😅
me neither! like the falacy that 24-words seeds are more secure than 12-words, i'm not convinced that a passphrase adds any extra security *if* you handle your 12 words properly..
Eventually you’ll figure that you don’t need no hardware wallet
But wait, how does my family access my Bitcoin if I die suddenly?
Almost impossible without involving a 3rd party, unless the family are Bitcoiners as well.
That’s why I either set clients up with collaborative multisig or with @c301f133 HoneyBadger
What do u think off setting up a multi sig w a 3rd party like Unchained? They have 1 key I have two.
Anything that would worry u about this scenario?
I like unchained and the idea of collaborative custody in general
Ive been w them for a few years and I love their team. I share your videos as well. Especially those I’m trying to orange pill particularly the one during Covid and your like, “it’s ok, I was once pathetic like u 2”😂😂….”it’s real honkey….i can say that since I’m white”….
Hahahaha forgot about that one
The only concern is privacy and relying on them to give your spouse or kids a key after you die
A worthwhile tradeoff for most ppl. Casa and Nunchuk provide a similar service without kyc for the most part.
KYC and privacy are not a minor tradeoff. People must carefully consider. You will be one warrant away from the government having one of your keys and your home address where you probably keep a second key. Dangerous…
No privacy. A rougue employee could sell your kyc data and balance info
Why give anyone a company corp or whoever your keys?
Why not just keep your own keys? I don’t get it.
Make multiple copies
Keep your mouth shut
If I stamp my keys on titanium and bury them in my backyard and keep my mouth shut what’s the problem?
& then i cross the equator & the rabbit hole spins in the opposite direction! wtf
The problem, in my opinion, is that most people stop at or before ‘So you use a passphrase’ which leaves them vulnerable to the most likely SPOF scenarios.
That’s why we do it the other way around, start with collaborative multisig. If they want to learn more and be fully self sovereign later then go for it! But at least your bitcoin is more likely to be secure in the phase prefacing that then when you start all the way at the top of your list.
Maybe I’m naive
But if no one knows you own Bitcoin
And you have it in cold storage and your seed is secure
What’s the problem?
How do you know your seed is secure? What about inheritance?
Maybe I’m naive but if I stamp my seed on titanium and bury it in my backyard then tell no one isn’t that secure?
Facts. Like raising children... always worried about those fuckers.
Lol. Yeah, my next step would he the "how do I put keys in other countries" stage.
Really related to the Ledger bit.
My first was a Ledger, then Trezor, CCmk3, CCmk4, Seedsigner, Passport...
Multi-vendor distributed multisig is the way.
I just feel like all that is completely unneeded
And the you like “hey indeed multisig is less secure then singlesig”
The thing you are forgetting is the lindy effect of your hardware device. The longer you have a hardware device, the less likely it could be compromised and you could lost your funds.
If you decide to change wallets, you have a risk that your new device is compromised or a technical risk that you fuck something up. Also,never send all your funds at once on a new wallet. You need to send the funds gradually over multiple months or even years.
And OBVISOULY UTXO PER UTXO. NEVer mix your utxos
UTXO per UTXO
aka Bitcoins are not fungible
aka Bitcoins are not money
I agree about sending slowly in tranches, but getting good at setting up new wallets is a skill everyone should develop. Otherwise you risk being left behind the cutting edge of Bitcoin security because it’s “Lindy” and you get got like Luke got got.
Yup security is a moving target
Also nothing wrong with combining/consolidating UTXOs as long as you know what you’re gaining and what you’re losing
What happenes to Luke?
Lost his coins in a server hack. Not sure exact details, but they got most of his stack.
From what I heard Luke was using his own custom made wallet that was not even offline because he did not trust coldcard or other wallet providers.
I would not compare that to having a cold card
Huh, that’s about right actually
Until you get nakam0t0, and then you rest
This is the best Bitcoiner evolution description.
Re supply chain and Coldcard… if you buy them as separate batches the supply chain risk goes away, however, it is known where all your devices came from. I think Coldcard deletes user purchase data after 90 or so.
And before, when using fiat, you where like: ”I trust the banks and governments to keep my wealth safe.” And behind your back they took that money, lent to others, keeping only a minimal to be paid back while investing in risky, dirty business and war.
There should also be some shitcoining episode in the middle of this journey 😎
OMG! Ugh grrrrrrr, wt... How is an average person going to ever become "bitcoiners"?
I just recently aquired my first physical device, a bitkey. Haven't sat down to set it up yet. So before I do... Could someone orient me... Where does this fit in the whole scheme?
And the. Someone mentioned utxo per utxo or something of that sort... How does that apply and can it be accommodated by one physical device?
All the gentle encouraging support, appreciated. 🙏🏻🌹🕊️🧿
I like the Bitkey! I think it’s a great device to get accustomed to self custody.
Ok good. I like that you say "accustomed" to. Seems important to remember to go in steps and get used to things one at a time.
A utxo is a chunk of bitcoin locked to an address. The bitkey is a user friendly wallet that allows you to manage the keys to your addresses and unlock any utxos you have in order to send them
Thank you. I haven't doven in yet... But do I understand that just like Sparrow or Blue Wallet separates UTXO and holds them as different wallets, this is also accomplished with bitkey instead of commingling them once they are all transfered over?
All utxos are separate chunks of bitcoin, it's just a question of whether the wallet you are using shows you that in the interface or hides it for simplicity.
Great choice with bitkey. You’ll be able to sleep knowing your funds are safe!
Bitkey’s set up is super quick and easy. Takes like 5mins. Simpler than opening a bank account.
You can even buy bitcoin through the app. Doesn’t get much more streamlined
Awesome. That's great to hear. Looking forward to diving in. I am guessing buying through the app though is a kyc procedure?
Yes and no. They have partnerships with Coinbase, Cash App, and soon Robinhood. So you would link your account from one of those exchanges and then buy from the Bitkey app
You can’t see your individual UTXOs in the Bitkey app, so probably best to only have KYC bitcoin there
until you (literally) fully decentralize eventually
So MANY of these thoughts have kept me awake at night! 😵💫
A passphrased coldcard is sufficient for 99% of bitcoiners
Exactly these people think they are el chapo lol and need all this security they are unknown nobodies all the Avg person needs is cold storage with a paraphrase.
I actually ran a node before I ever owned any Bitcoin. First Bitcoin I purchased was with cash, to my non-custodial wallet, connected to my own node.
I understood the 6102 risk before I ever touched Bitcoin.
this morning I consolidated utxos
Wait until you hear about the brainless clones that you encode prvkeys into their DNA
Spot on. Maybe ad the phase when you get anxious of randomness.
I find it hilarious that 90% of bitcoiners in their brain think they are fuckin James Bond 007 or el chapo and require cia level security when they are mere mortal law abiding citizens cold storage with a pass phrase takes care of 99% of their threat models. The avg bitcoiner does not need keys spread out in multiple countries lol like let’s be fuckin real here. Nothing wrong with protecting your stack but a lot of shit people do is simply not necessary.
These influencers/ Bitcoin celebs biggest threat model is somebody kidnapping their loved ones and demanding bitcoin. No Cold card or multi sig will protect you from that.
If your not a bitcoin celebrity or “influencer” nobody fuckin knows who you are no one knows you have bitcoin. Unless you open your mouth and feel the need to brag about your stack like an idiot. Cold storage is all you need.
Such is life on the road to utopia 😛
I’m on the path described 🤪. Haven’t reached the end yet.
I am at step 7. I hope to be a Bitcoiner some day, still have a few steps to go 😉
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.
Awe man this was golden. I was dying laughing. No seriously I just had a near death experience laughing at this note.
Spot on.
So incredibly accurate!!!!
This should be a flow chart with numbered levels and included with every Bitcoiner starter pack.
This might also be called a paranoid bitcoiner syndrome.
A simple story of learn by doing
Which reflects a core concept to create value: proof-of-work
👏👏👏
Nothing in life is save, especially wealth 🌞
Literally my Bitcoin way, until the multisig
Still somewhere in the middle of that!
Before buying, research digital privacy and security practices #xmr
They'll learn, eventually.
It is and endless research🧡
And in the end you are back to custodian services as has been the case throughout history. For most self custody is the largest risk.
You just identified my husband! lol
The bitcoiner journey in a nutshell 🥜
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