Oddbean

Bitcoin maximalists: What are the arguments against monero vs bitcoin?. As far as I can tell it ticks all the boxes of bitcoin and more but NONE of the ones that other shitcoins have (accept for network adoption rate). Privacy is a massive flaw in Bitcoin and its not being addressed by bitcoin devs at all (which itself is frustrating and dubious by its continued absence from discussion) Monero is the best candidate for privacy coin. And since privacy is the TOP feature required by Bitcoin right now, why not use Monero. Coinjoin is complex, expensive and open to supression by regulation. Lightning is not private and also complex. And now that exchanges are blocking tainted coins Bitcoin can't even be considered fungible anymore, let alone private. Why should anyone use Bitcoin over Monero?

In short: Monero has great features to transport „value“ quickly and with privacy in mind. Like other technologies. ➞ #Bitcoin is value. If necessary, you can briefly exchange Bitcoin for Monero, send Monero, then your trading partner can return it to Bitcoin to store the value in the long term. The traceability of Bitcoin is not necessarily a bug, but I am aware that there are different opinions on this.

Traceability will be used asymmetrically against the powerless. Privacy strengthens security and censorship resistance for users. Can't really see any strong argument against privacy being the default. Monero users can always be optionally transparent with their own individual transactions or even whole wallets if they wish to reveal them by simply providing viewkeys

But why? What is the point of changing back to Bitcoin when you can just keep everything as Monero. From a technical point of view Monero is more secure and more convenient. I also agree traceability isn't a bug, its a feature the devs and govnt want to keep. We could have had bitcoin privacy but the core devs have no intention of doing so. But without privacy there is a new bug: bitcoin is no longer fungible (coinjoins are tainted) and any coin can be monitored/traced/outlawed.

Monero is missing one, very important thing: being the absolute mathematical scarcity. It also doesn't scale. The network security isn't where #Bitcoin is neither. But being the absolute mathematical scarcity is the main reason.

Ok, less important for transferring value in the short/medium term, but I won't argue Would you be a proponent for Bitcoin implementing MWEB? It completely hides amounts and addresses, ephemeral like Lightning, and is truly scalable unlike Bitcoin, Lightning, or Monero

Gold has more annual inflation than Monero and the best SoV for several millennia, so that answer isn't very satisfying. Bitcoiners hyperfocus on supply and ignore demand. Without any demand you can have 1 Bitcoin and it is worth nothing if no one wants it. Utility brings demand and absolute scarcity isn't necessary for value (I'm not saying Bitcoin is without value either). It's not all or nothing.

Utility creates demand and demand defines the price that is paid for the utility. Utility is bought and paid for when it is needed. You don't buy 1000 vouchers for haircuts today, you pay for one, when you need it. With depreciating FIAT or scarce #Bitcoin. MAYBE in the future you will also buy some Monero, Ethereum, ….. or whatever your heart desires in the short term. Because you MIGHT just need it quickly.

Yes, and Bitcoin has it's own utility. A long term SoV or digital asset. This utility is also bought and paid for when needed. It makes no sense for me to buy Bitcoin if I'm going to need to spend it in the short/medium term. It is not an ideal MoE/currency. That is a big reason why many in the third world don't use it and overwhelmingly prefer Tether USDT (Despite what some bitcoiners would like to believe). Or why it grows increasingly rarer to see Freenet markets solely using Bitcoin to transact. Where privacy+cheap txs are paramount Monero is preferred. Some even exclusively. All depends how often one gets haircuts and how far out one predicts needing them. You can get discounts for buying anything in bulk. It would be more expensive to pay for 1 voucher with Bitcoin every time you need one instead of buying many vouchers to hold and use in the short/medium term. Most users are onboarding to all crypto thru depreciating fiat. That includes Bitcoin. Any crypto can be swapped to and from Monero, that isn't an exclusive privilege of Bitcoin.

I see, it will take a few more years.... Then there's just another „quick“ option - which I don't like but is popular: If you want to SAVE your VALUE like this; each his own. There are certainly good arguments in favour, that I will never raise. The chart is youKNOW vs #Bitcoin. &Yes, they all look 'the same' - for a reason 🤫 https://m.primal.net/HWZc.jpg

I've already conceded BTC is a better SoV (so far), my point is that isn't ideal for other aspects like MoE They don't all look the same. You just chose a convenient time frame. If I wanted to be disingenuous I would zoom in on 2022 XMR/BTC, but I wont. Here is the long term trend of XMR/BTChttps://m.primal.net/HWaE.png

If you zoom out, they all look the same 🫠 First pump, then dump to infinity. And it's not about the pump at the beginning, in the long run. You get deeper and deeper into the content and inevitably get into guys like me. It's always the same, but a good way 🤗👍

A "dump to infinity" and a clear long term positive trend upwards cannot both be true. You're right about many others, but simply look at the long run chart shown. It obviously has other value Bitcoin cannot provide or the trend would be towards zero and it isn't. This is true only for a handful of cryptos other than Monero. Either way we are already in agreement that BTC has been a better SoV