Oddbean new post about login | logout I generally think the sphere sovereignty framework is helpful. But where it falls short is with the state. Sphere sovereignty says there's 3 (0r 4) spheres God instituted. 1. Family 2. Church 3. State 4. Self My issue with this is that if you trace the origin of all 4 spheres, you see that all but "the state" are descriptively decreed by God for our good and the fulfillment of the dominion mandate. The state is not... The state is a judgment on man for repeatedly forsaking God and rejecting Him as King. It's origins are found in the demonic and Scripture speaks of the state in terms of being a "beast." God also says He uses the state and it's evil rulers to serve Him and His purposes, but this is not an endorsement of the state as an institution being good and Godly. My concern is that including the state in sphere sovereignty legitimizes it like it does the family, church, self. What say you?
Before the 'State' there were Judges.
True. When God freed Israel from slavery in Egypt He could have established a new government/State for them, but instead He left them free, ruled by Himself and ad hoc judges that He raised up as needed. nostr:nevent1qqsx94lu63l4wjxsqnf2fwqzzpas024kz6a6rs5mrq84j2v6s7q6s9gpzfmhxue69uhkummnw3eryvfwvdhk6tczyrdvucasp3pwdcqh6qxary9fx2pcvqp07ktmss0ttmu3me83e6zfzqcyqqqqqqgvu6myz
Romans chapter 13, Submit to Governmant. Sounds to me like a sphere of sovereighty from God
Yet Christians are to disobey the state when its edicts contradict God. I've come to understand that passage in light of 1 Peter 4:15. Inasmuch as a state's laws correspond to God's law: obey. But God's law is supreme.
A rabbit hole some christians fear to go down is the context rabbit hole. so not just what was written, but to who, when, and in what context. doing this can add meaning to what was being said in those letters. But ive never seen it change the truth of who Jesus is.
I like this analysis. The first city (and with it likely a government) was founded by Cain. Israel's formal state under a human king, was a rejection of God as their Lord. Most of the state-related sphere sovereignty that I've heard taught seems like it's married to American exceptionalism/ra ra constitution stuff.
I think the state probably is an endorsed institution, but I'm not married to the idea. Proverbs about honest rulers being a blessing, Old Testament standard that a group not an offended individual needed to agree for capital punishment, Jesus didn't tell the soldiers to abandon their posts, Pauls encouragement to follow laws as it remains possible, etc, imply to me that civil society functions better with an honest government. However, just like families and churches, it should be obvious that a government that is not encouraging moral society and is not just, should not be tolerated. I'd do what I could to stop an abusive father or pastor and I should do the same for an abusive state entity. In the US in particular, I've made it one of my goals to encourage my fellow Christians to stop using the phrase "pray for our leaders". We don't have leaders, we have representatives chosen through a constitutional democratic process. This includes the person we choose to represent us in the executive branch. If we believe that authority is instituted by God, then we should realize that the authority God uniquely instituted for our country 200 years ago is the authority of citizens as "leaders" as expressed through the constitution and constitutional laws. It's the citizens who are failing here and the current bunch who control the monopoly on violence in DC and in our communities are probably a judgment for our apathy as the true leaders of the state. It's an interesting discussion
Nice response, but we have many leaders in the state, one being our Commander in Chief who seems to be AWOL
As Commander In Chief, the president is clearly the leader of those who have chosen to join the military and submit to that leadership (as I did earlier in my life). Just as the president is the leader of those who choose to be employed in the executive branch and submit to that leadership. But as regard to the general citizens, the president is only our representative in the executive branch and has no authority except that given in our constitution and duly passed constitutional laws.
When the Israelites wanted a king, God wanted them to see Him as sufficient. But they demanded a human king. That wasn’t God’s plan but He allowed it and it led to all kinds of trouble. At least that is how I remember that part of Scripture.
Yes, I think you’re correct. It’s never been a good thing for the people of God to desire to be like the world, and yet, that’s Israel’s reason for wanting a king. https://m.primal.net/KlYH.jpg
