Oddbean

Many people are saying “put it in the client”. Of course, this would be ideal. A few challenges: 1) Right now, each client can only connect to a limited number of relays. For example, Damus recommends ~10. This forces nostr clients to connect to a small number of large (high bandwidth) relays to reach all other users. Basically, if you can only connect to 10, then you want to connect to the same 10 as everyone else so that you can reach everyone. 2) If relays were installed in phones, they would quickly go online and offline. Each client would then be forced to connect to a massive number of low bandwidth relays. This is the opposite of what happens today. 3) Mobile devices have limited bandwidth and aren’t designed to be low latency servers. Desktops can handle more load, they generally have higher bandwidth limits, and can be left running for longer. People need to be motivated to run desktops to support the network. To move the relays into the clients (which should be done to make the network decentralized) the core underlying protocol would need to be completely redesigned. I’ve been brainstorming and experimenting with such a thing but it’s not ready for presentation. I think I’ve loosely “solved” the broadcasting piece (hint: bees and flowers). But I still have two massive missing pieces. First - replies (replying to someone else’s message so that 3rd parties can see it) Second - data efficient discovery (eg. how to allow hashtags in a way that doesn’t drown your device in spam). Both of the missing pieces are essentially data discoverability problems so perhaps they will eventually have a common solution 🤞 The challenge is minimizing latency, bandwidth, and data replication. Also, no matter what, moving the relays into the clients will likely degrade the UX. Centralized systems are faster, more responsive, and therefore generally have better UX. nostr:note1l7yww5ltcd5an05vcevht5ltqx4z5rnrus29j28zddwgeskns7dsrrqtw0

Good ideas and interesting project you have going. I was considering a secondary form of hashtags: funded hashtags. Funded hashtags would be funded with let's say 10 sats. This would act as a cost barrier that reduces spam. Perhaps the relays that pick up notes with funded hashtags could gain a percentage of the sat funding. While I hate pay-to-win features, spam will become an increasing problem and if the cost for funded hashtags is not expensive it might work.

Yes, I’m hoping that ecash will make these types of systems possible. In addition to paid hashtags, ecash could potentially help get rid of free riders. For example, if you run a desktop, you accumulate sats as others download from you. When you’re using your phone, you’re paying sats to others. Videos especially are pricey. We forget that many nostr relays are paying for this and essentially making a donation to the network. Another way to reduce spam is to rely on the trust network. For example, I follow (and trust) you. You follow others, and so on. I essentially trust you and everyone, directly or indirectly, trusted by you. Just like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, this might be almost everyone. I would be willing to get content and hashtags from this expanded network. Spammers would have to be followed by someone for their content to be visible to the larger trust network. Since most people don’t follow spammers, this should keep much of it out. (And of course, you should be able to block individual accounts too in case you don’t like anyone). The downside to this is, of course, bootstrapping for new users. Newbies who don’t know anyone are locked out until they get someone to follow them.