Oddbean

"Because I said so" is how you raise a statist cuck who will mindlessly fight any war or otherwise sacrifice himself for any org that positions itself as an authority, or at best a kid who ultimately rebels & has to relearn everything for himself. Reason & logic rooted in sound moral principles are really the only path to raising good people. Evading the resonsibility of actually understanding & being able to communicate why you do the things you do will eventually just make you into a tyrant or a normie follower like everyone else. Getting pretty sick of everyone over at the Daily Wire. https://nostpic.com/media/ec99edc5567e02815fb15020285e2fa8390931cedf59c83d6bb2c5f6ee1530b9/68777a7ec42d68f2761aa902f9075a5e8dfcef260b5c987050dca7279a3b25d3.webp

my dad used that my mother explained things my mother needed to be more firm but that was her main mistake - and this is also why i believe a good father has an important role in being firm, women are naturally not as good at that my dad was an actual psychopath, so there's that also in recent weeks my intake of anything outside of nostr has almost dwindled away to nothing, i think today i checked zerohedge briefly and it was maybe a week since i did that before that, literally nothing i need to really know that someone isn't posting on here

I fully agree. I don't ever tell my daughter "because I said so". As a result, she doesn't accept this as an answer from others, like when her grandma says it to her. I give her an elaborate explanation of why I believe my course of action to be correct. This also means that at this point I rarely have to explain myself to her anymore, she realises I think heavily about my actions and really have her best interest in mind, no "trust me bro" shit.

At the same time ... I've found we have definitely erred on the side of too much explanation, and now our eldest basically needs us to tell him our reasoning before he complies. Authority exists and is not just one will overpowering another.

Why doesn't he understand the logic & reasoning & basic principles behind your positions? If you are being consistent & teaching him properly then he should eventually be able to arrive at the same conclusions without you having to explain.

Sometimes an explanation is not only simply not necessary, like in the case of daily chores, but may be detrimental to the child, such as in the case of emergencies or topics for which the child is not ready. Obedience without question is a virtue when applied to legitimate authority, that is those who are trustworthy, responsible, and proximal. In the case of adults, imagine if an employer had to justify his direction at each step in a process. Eventually, the employee may benefit from an explanation for each step, but it would be better for both to get him familiar with the process first. So, too, with law and governance. Now, I would say much of our modern governance is not trustworthy, responsible, nor proximal, but great caution need be had in resisting. Take stances carefully.

Daily chores are simple & really important to explain. Making your bed keeps dust off of the layers where you put your face & reduces the likelihood of acne, while also making the bedroom feel less chaotic. The bed is often the biggest thing in the room. Chaotic environments have a greater impact on our mental condition, than most people realize. Diet has as much impact on skin as anything, but clean towels, clean sheets (free of dust & pet dander), well trimmed fingernails, & daily showers all play a role too. Dirty floors mean that you get into bed with dirty feet. Dusty or dirty surfaces mean that anytime you sit things down or move anything around you stir up stuff & spread it to your bed or elsewhere. Properly stored clothes are also generally protected from dust & pet dander. We are creatures of habit, if we build good habits early in life then things are easier as we get older. It is much harder to correct bad habits than to build good ones in the first place. It's a great opportunity to tech them about low time preference vs high time preference behaviors. Those "choose your hard" memes are probably helpful here. Every tyrant always resorts to emergencies as an excuse, but generally proper explanations of reality are what prepare people for genuine emergencies. "Topics for which the child is not ready" are also rarely as hard to deal with as some people make them out to be. It is being uncomfortable about a topic that makes things difficult, kids usually aren't the problem. Employers are generally paying for people to do things the way they want them done. But even so, most of the best employees are going to need to be sold on the mission to get the best performance out of them. Governments are force funded organizations built on lies & coercion. They are always criminal. If the goal was only to help people & to only do things that people wanted then all funding would be voluntary. All funding is forced because the goal is to do things that make most people's lives worse. Some portion of the population is also bribed with crumbs to oppose & attack those who might otherwise be a threat to those stealing from everyone.

My pastor once said one of the most important things you can teach your child is immediate obedience. I'm still figuring out whether that is correct or not, but that wouldn't rule out the child asking why after the fact or while they are in the process of obeying, and I agree that "because I said so" is an inadequate response.

I think obedience is an underrated virtue today. Of course, we ought not be obedient to wrongful authority. Perhaps the line that children must be taught to walk is to recognize right from wrong authority. In general, though, it is good to subject ourselves even to others' wishes, so long as they do not conflict with reason or with other responsibilities, rather than to insist upon our own way. Again, though, this all must be nuanced given the circumstances in which we live.

I think obedience is the source of basically ALL of the greatest atrocities in human history. Obedience is our primary problem today, "news" stations all repeat the exact same talking points without question. The covid plandemic would not have been possible without a tremendous amount of worldwide obedience. Recognizing right & wrong has nothing to do with obedience & everything to do with knowing how to actually think & being grounded in logic & reason & sound moral principles. The only legitimate authority is reality & by extension the people who align themselves with reality & can explain the logic & reason & principles behind their positions.

With all things in life I believe in balance. I suppose I could agree with that. I think there is a time for obedience and a time for violent defiance, the importance is a clear distinction when one or the other is necessary. Another part as @Jeff Swann suggested is the abuse during covid times. I wonder if this is more of a confidence issue than anything, in my circles we were not very obedient but probably could have done more. I think it might be more about a long term position that affords you the ability to rebel without fear of losing everything you have. Honestly I blame most of that on debt/inflation, but that's a different talk

We should not be blindly obedient, to be sure (unless perhaps you've taken a bow to that extent, but that's a different matter). However, it is good for us and good for our neighbors if we are generally obedient to legitimate authority. In my estimation, during covid governments overreached their legitimate authority, and disobedience to those governments was actually required out of obedience to higher ideals. Even then, though, prudence was required. It serves no one to be obstinate all the time, so we have to pick our battles.

“Think for yourself, question authority” One of these days, if not already, he’s gonna change your mind and let him do something by out-reasoning you. That’ll be a proud day for papa node 🥹

Agreed. There is a difference between cajoling your child, allowing them to get their way, and appreciating that they are inquisitive and question what they get told. Vast majority of bitcoiners were kids who always wanted an explanation and didn’t accept “I told you so” as an appropriate answer.

Damn. This resonates a lot with what I've learned and thought about game theory today lol nevent1qvzqqqqqqypzp25s9sryjmw4rc39y8kh025l3v0de24n9x6rnxgwx62pra45jrn3qythwumn8ghj7cnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qyt8wumn8ghj7ur4wfcxcetjv4kxz7fwvdhk6tcqyz8y73h9xlh95np3kfy2nacnjv0kwd5y5lkh2x6wrrehk0c6u7zewf9z85f Having a clear and transparent set of rules might be important to Game theory and family interactions although I think you could disagree on some points and that's ok

I like your takes, nostr:nprofile1qqswex0dc4t8uq5pt7c4qgpgtch6swgfx88d7kwg844m930kac2npwgpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5hszrnhwden5te0dehhxtnvdakz7qg3waehxw309ahx7um5wgh8w6twv5hsv3sy43 Matt Walsh has no sense and no balls. "Because I said so" makes for the weakest possible leader. Treat children like the human beings they are. nostr:nevent1qqs97uay8rumss7pdv04z8jtry52yrvpxqc5jxkdhp2dysns3grj7hspr4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezucnfw33k76twv4ezuum0vd5kzmp0qgswex0dc4t8uq5pt7c4qgpgtch6swgfx88d7kwg844m930kac2npwgrqsqqqqqpf4uzp3

I don't think you're giving young people enough credit for ability to nuance this issue. My kids understand that "Don't challenging my parental authority" /= "Don't ever question anyone in authority."