Oddbean new post about login | logout BullBitcoin asks for KYC. Stop saying it's KYC free.
Not when you use the post office.
Dude. You need a BullBitcoin account first....
You don’t need to kyc an account if you’re buying under 1000$. Dude.
Yes you do. https://image.nostr.build/be2d9d0c9ac74b89124cfb6ec7c58eedcc06a94e2ef2ddcfd84a8f9ca2e8f84d.jpg
I think the difference between this and the major American KYC products is it allows for very low friction lying.
Absolutely. But this is not KYC free, correct?
No, it’s not. But it can be used with pseudonyms which makes it pretty private. A big improvement over CashApp or Coinbase. Your point is well taken that marketing it as “KYC free” is incorrect, but it’s more of a semantic difference, since the privacy improvement it offers is real.
Yes you can lie. Dobt you see. They ask for kyc. You can lie. That is still asking for kyc though
It’s a system where it’s almost expected you lie, whereas it’s much more difficult to lie to CashApp or Coinbase. KYC is referring to “Know Your Customer” laws, which have become a big deal in the United States and other jurisdictions around the world. If you really want to get into the weeds, a simple name and email address would not qualify as being “KYC compliant” in the United States. Clearly it is in Canada under certain limits, but this form of identification is much less intrusive than true KYC. You couldn’t easily fake government documents like a drivers license to get around the rules in the United States, but you can easily present a fake name an burner email. Maybe “KYC minimized” would be more correct terminology.
Right minimal KYC. KYC free is telling a lie
Yes. It’s not a hill I’d die on though. If people want to call it “KYC free” in an attempt to get others to buy Bitcoin more privately, I don’t have a problem. It’s substantially more private than American brokerage products, to the point that it offers big benefits as an alternative.
See i do have a problem. Just speak the truth. I dont have to lie to promote something i want others to have. This is huge bias and ignoring truth because it doesnt promote bitcoin?
🫶 I say, fuck #bitcoin Earn cash “ecash” 🎈 https://i.nostrimg.com/eeb1b8f5d6e7914c3856f8d6268bc33ae2e6deb641db1215f5c21fcad34c9f18/file.jpeg
Bull Bitcoin is not KYC free. I’ve agreed with you. All I’m saying is that everyone starts out buying Bitcoin on Coinbase, CashApp, or some other regulated exchange these days. I can’t orange-pill normal people straight into their own LN node with Robosats set up. If people want to say something which is wrong, but still offers a substantial improvement for people looking to buy private Bitcoin, I’m not going to be very concerned by it. If everyone called it “Government ID free Bitcoin”, it would be correct, and that’s a big improvement over “Government ID verified Bitcoin”. The semantics of what qualifies as true “Know Your Customer” verification is missing that fundamental point.
Lying a little to get a point across is a slippery slope i will avoid if i can. It will not help onboard people to bitcoin. Truth does.
It’s not lying that’s the problem, but get caught stealing. 🎈
That’s fine. I see your perspective. I personally would rather someone buy from Bull Bitcoin than Coinbase, and the friction for me of explaining that “it’s not really KYC free and let me help you install Bisq” helps no one either. In most cases, I offer to buy Bitcoin myself for friends and family, and then send it to them so that their privacy is maintained. I think that’s an even better solution than any of these exchanges, but it has a different set of trade offs. I’ll continue to be truthful myself and try to help people improve their privacy, but I do not share your passion around the KYC/not KYC distinction. More power to you.
I get what youre saying. I also think you understand the difference between being open and honest about something vs disguising it to promote bitcoin.
Here’s a hill I’ll die on when it comes to onboarding new people - Wallet of Satoshi isn’t a Bitcoin Wallet. It’s a Bitcoin account, managed by a custodian, similar to a bank account. THAT lie, in my humble opinion, will cause more damage than the “no-KYC marketing” of Bull Bitcoin.
This is actually very welcomed info. So kind of similar to ZBD in a way? I love this kind of post. I do believe in calling out this type of thing. Truth can be awkward at times but it always needs to be defended.
Very similar to ZBD. I’m a Wallet of Satoshi user - they provide a great payments experience and I use a custom address to receive zaps when I’m offline. But they hold your keys. You are trusting them with your Bitcoin, and they can rug you at any time. It’s not your wallet, it’s an account which is managed by a company (WOS). I’ve seen a lot of people onboard new users with Wallet of Satoshi, and it’s very frustrating. Until you understand the risks involved with a custodian, you need to be learning the fundamentals of Bitcoin wallet management and safe seed storage. To gloss over that and pretend a custodian is a wallet is a huge mistake in my opinion. It will lead to way more rug pulls in the future.
Is there an easy wallet to onboard people to that has a lightning address without having to pay to open a channel? I think this the issue right now. We need more choices where you hold your own keys.
Not a lie when your own. Go thank tower records. 🤷🏻♂️
Scratched the fact. 🤷🏻♂️
What else?
Where is the lie?
No. The problem hasn’t been solved from a technical perspective yet. There are other alternatives which are actual wallets, like Zeus, Phoenix, and Muun. All three have different trade offs, but users maintain custody of their funds. Zaps are fun, but the purpose of Bitcoin is not to be able to auto-receive micropayments. Bitcoin is self-sovereign, bearer, debasement-proof money. It needs to be used correctly to gain those benefits. An FTX account won’t ever be as good as an on-chain address in cold storage. Once people understand Bitcoin and have sent or received real on-chain or real lightning sats, then they can experiment with custodial payments solutions. If you start them off with Wallet of Satoshi and call it a Bitcoin wallet however, you’re building a very poor security foundation for new users. I wish they would just rebrand to “Bank of Satoshi”🤣 There’s no shame in that, and it would be much more obvious what their relationship is to their customers and their funds.
Got it. I like Bank of Satoshi! 🤣😅
I may have spoken too soon - it looks like we’re getting real close to a workable solution right now😎 nostr:note1480cypjsraq3g2c7qexu6e0lddp89hw0n04s75hv4d9wuzxyq9uqvfvtx2
To clarify further, you can SEND zaps in a 100% self-custodial way currently. There just isn’t any reasonable way to generate new invoices and receive them automatically without using a third party payment provider. I’m confident someone will create a solution soon, and it’s more of a user experience problem than a fundamental flaw.
#Bitcoin is true money. No lies needed 👌.
No. I do it without any KYC information. It is KYC free.
Guess you haven't done it then.
I have. Why say this?
Because I have done it without providing any KYC information. Hence, why it is KYC free.
You mean you lied about kyc info. Not that they dont ask for it. Right?
When the synthesis kicks in and the going on behalf is aids infected.
No. I mean I have multiple names. I have a name for Nostr. I have a name for the governemnt. I have a name in my community. I have a name for Bullbitcoin. You must only have one name? The one that the government uses?
Right. So you gave a name to bullbitcoin because they require that kyc info to proceed. You decided to lie about your name, just like i did.
More than just fun 🌵
You're arguing semantics here. Providing a "name" is not KYC.
You mean providing a "real name" https://image.nostr.build/be2d9d0c9ac74b89124cfb6ec7c58eedcc06a94e2ef2ddcfd84a8f9ca2e8f84d.jpg
Redemption coupons were giveaways, ain’t nobody else paid for a full system unit. Why do they need it running? https://i.nostrimg.com/d0f1bf853ac27abf62ecda45a271ad4493e3d9af55995d1dd280a75d78d889b4/file.jpeg
💌
A barging back then though. Good to have those coupons redeemed since the price has gone way up. 🌵
It's not a lie because your legal name is a strawman https://image.nostr.build/968f69d0ebf73d5bf0005c653afb13f384352860725e4afd9f0b493d19539e70.jpg
Cant read a damn thing. Can this be any lower resolution? 😆🤣😅
Maybe 🥁
It's a book, not even that good but it does a make a point that is made elsewhere that the name (and other stuff) assigned to you is not you, it is a strawman
I get what you mean but my name isnt just recognized by the government but also by God.
Fair. There's also this, which I consider seminal on the topic https://dergigi.medium.com/true-names-not-required-fc6647dfe24a
Didn’t Jesus change the name of his disciples?
Yup. My point exactly. Recognized names.
Changed names.
Ya.. and they were recognized.... lol
I don’t know when @doot does now 🎈
In the jungle, the mighty jungle. The lion sleeps nonite 🍎 https://i.nostrimg.com/eeb1b8f5d6e7914c3856f8d6268bc33ae2e6deb641db1215f5c21fcad34c9f18/file.jpeg
