Oddbean

All depends what we're solving for. We're not within striking distance of Visa. How can bitcoin/Lightning compete with instant settlement 3-5% cash back credit cards? When on-chain fees are 600 sats/vbyte, we'll all be thankful lightning is an option.

People can charge back Visa for like 6 months I think. It is not instant settlement. And that 3-5% isn't free, and it's usually more like 1-2%. And you're paying an extra 3% to use it at stores. So it's not as great as you make it seem. People have been fooled.

You mostly listed negatives for the merchant. chargebacks are incredible for the consumer. That extra 3% is covered by the merchant (maybe it's baked into the price but cash discounts are uncommon), any points at all is free money, and many cards have plenty of other perks. People aren't fooled, they're stuck in the game because life is 2+% more expensive and overall worse as a consumer using cash or bitcoin in 2024.

No, they've been fooled. Credit card companies have spent a lot of money on research and are smarter as a result. Most people spend more on average when using them. That far exceeds the ridiculous points. And the merchant does pay the fee, but they bake it into the sale total. So the consumer still ultimately pays it. Credit card companies aren't just giving away free money. They use research and statistics to convince people like you that they're a net gain when the reality is that they aren't. The whole points system plays on a reward mechanism to make you use them more. And they are a privacy nightmare. I'm sure they monetize that data somehow too. I never said charge backs weren't incredible for some consumers, but they also lead to higher prices for the rest of us. Companies don't just eat the cost. Besides, my actual point was that final settlement isn't fast. That doesn't sound like final settlement to me.