@43d7c4ea This was a really interesting discussion.

Chris Dillow's been writing on this for some time, using Alasdair MacIntyre's goods of excellence (mastery of practice) versus goods of effectiveness (wealth power fame). We have totally devalued goods of excellence. I think his links to the arts are an important piece here wrt our culture.

From April: https://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2023/04/devaluing-excellence.html 

 @7d0b4a22 

Thanks, I used to regularly read Dillow when I was at the other place, but he doesn't seem to be active over here, so I'm missing the links... so thanks for this