Oddbean new post about login | logout simpleX is getting good
simpleX is getting good wss://nostr.fmt.wiz.biz
Nostr better no?
Nostr is different. You can't send peer to peer encrypted private messages in nostr. Simplex is an alternative to telegram
I see. But messages should be pretty private on nostr no? I mean public private keys should only add encryption https://www.0xchat.com/#/ Say they are encrypted
It always was good
is this another Nostr client?
It's an instant messenger.
No. SimpleX does it's own thing. 0xchat and Keychat are the Nostr competitors.
simple jack
Yeah, it's downright useable these days. I like it.
Where is my fairy bot, Jack, do you know? It was here this morning.
It came back home. Thanks!
Hello user👋! I've made it easy and convenient everyone to easily get to me and have quick convo. For more info, questions , investment guide &tips You can connect with me now via simpleX Chat with the link below ⏬ https://simplex.chat/contact#/?v=2-7&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FPtsqghzQKU83kYTlQ1VKg996dW4Cw4x_bvpKmiv8uns%3D%40smp18.simplex.im%2FD1yZe9VTHaaYgGw5orbCq5dKNRuXn67I%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-3%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEA8jxuVUwBtzlwikmHx9Tqpstet3raCJyvenI2ql6lWyk%253D%26srv%3Dlyqpnwbs2zqfr45jqkncwpywpbtq7jrhxnib5qddtr6npjyezuwd3nqd.onion
Better than Signal?
It's more decentralized and anonymized than Signal, but it's not run by a non-profit, and it's definitely not nearly as tested as Signal. Honestly, there's not a whole lot that will get me to move away from Signal as my main encrypted messenger, but I do like to experiment with Session and SimpleX for a little bit of anonymous chatting. I'd say it's a decent option if your threat model requires anonymity moreso than security and confidentiality. Signal still has the most proven track record and strongest encryption standards so far.
In my country WhatsApp is omnipresent. Not using it means that I cannot even contact customer service or buy from the majority of digital stores because they do not use a land line anymore. Yet, I am the 0.00000001% stubborn without it. I try to bring people to Signal where I have 5 contacts at most. It would be hard to move people away from WhatsApp to yet another platform unless it’s utterly appealing.
Mexico is like this... everything runs on WhatsCrapp, even businesses.
Hello 👋! I've made it easy and convenient everyone to easily get to me and have quick convo. Get in touch with me now via simpleX🔗 https://simplex.chat/contact#/?v=2-7&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FenEkec4hlR3UtKx2NMpOUK_K4ZuDxjWBO1d9Y4YXVaA%3D%40smp14.simplex.im%2FSEKmN13uyX4OJlUxco0z9Nm9bPd4pK_K%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-3%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEA7kBBMVqOcbeghKMFplSPoiLQ903hkK3qBKtF_C1-LEo%253D%26srv%3Daspkyu2sopsnizbyfabtsicikr2s4r3ti35jogbcekhm3fsoeyjvgrid.onion
Yeah, WhatsApp isn't great, but I understand why people use it. I just try to convince people who do use it that Signal has the feature set that they're looking for with much better security and they don't have to tie it to their Meta account. It's still better than people using SMS or even Facebook Messenger, though. Unfortunately, a lot of people that I know use both of those no matter how hard I try to get them to join Signal. Anyways, major respect for holding out under that social pressure. 🫡
It’s not difficult though. I just love it. When people ask me for my WhatsApp and I say I don’t have it they get in awe. Some ask how do I survive, others how do I talk to other people, how to I get things done, etc. I say I call. They look at me with a wonder expression for half a second when they remember that phones do call and then change to that of course expression. I just love these interactions lol
I remember getting somewhat of a similar reaction back in the day when I said that I didn't have Facebook. I eventually caved and got Facebook, but I wish I didn't because now I want to get rid of it, but I can't since some family only communicates that way 😂 But yeah, I have noticed that people do seem to get shocked if you don't have whatever the trending social media is. I say that I don't have TikTok and I get some Gen Z'ers looking at me as if I'm insane haha
The contrary happens to me. When I say I don't have facebook they immediately asks what about your "instaaaaaa" which I also do not have. The usual curious expressions follows but many times it is replaced by admiration. Many people I interact with say exactly what you just said, I wish I could be like you, but family.... to what I always reply well, my family knows my number 😂 Exceptions exist. This lady that works on my shooting range needed to contact me for some documentation. When I said I din't have WhatsApp she got angry saying how do you expect to be contacted. I always answer the same: when I need to contact someone, I find my ways. If someone is interested in contacting me, either they will find a way or it is not of my interest, hence, not my problem. That one got very mad.
Well, the thing about the number is that I only give that out to friends and family that I know won't bug me all the time 🤷♂️😂 But also, in a way, I would say that using Messenger is definitely a *little* bit more secure than using SMS, considering the fact that SMS is completely unencrypted, whereas Messenger does encrypt in transit and is now partially end-to-end encrypted. It's not ideal either way, but unlike a criminal tapping a cell tower, Meta can only do so much with my data in a legal way. So yeah, at the end of the day, if I can get a person using Signal instead of Meta's chat apps, that's great, but I will still take WhatsApp or Messenger over SMS.
I have 3 SIM cards. 2 in a dual-chip dumb phone and 1 in my company issued iPhone. I share one of my dumb SIM numbers to stores and people I deal with in the street. The second dumb SIM number I share with online stores or whoever needs to reach me when I am expecting an online purchase. Both have redirects to my real number that only my family knows. In my iPhone I have two do not disturb rules. One 24x7 that only allows incoming calls from family. Another 8x5 that allows incoming calls and notifications from teams and work directory. Everything else is routed from those two numbers (Street and Internet). Rarely I am annoyed by anyone. It’s very neat and not relying on virtual numbers or anything that breaks. It is a setup I’m using for 7 years with great success. And yeah, I ignore all SMS as they are usually always SPAM.
Simplex chat also uses the Signal Protocol for end-to-end encryption of messages.
I did know that, but does it use the post-quantum addition that Signal recently created? Genuine question, I don't know.
I think so. https://simplex.chat/blog/20240314-simplex-chat-v5-6-quantum-resistance-signal-double-ratchet-algorithm.html
That's good to know for sure, thanks. That basically leaves only one more concern: the anonymity aspect. On Session, they use onion routing based on nodes run by volunteers who stake the Oxen (soon to be Session Token) cryptocurrency. Meanwhile, on SimpleX, I don't know what maintains the anonymity. It appears to be based on SimpleX's servers, but how does that keep people anonymous? Because, if that is how it works, their servers are inevitably seeing the user's IP bouncing around. Compared to the onion routing, that seems like a relatively weak form of anonymizing users, even without the ID metadata. Then again, I'm definitely not an expert, so I could be completely misunderstanding how all of this works. I know a lot of people say that SimpleX is more decentralized than any other messenger, but I'm not sure how that is the case if SimpleX themselves are running the servers.
Session is not very decentralized as Tor because it requires imvesting ~$1000 in a token (which is being replaced soon...) to run a node. Tor nodes can be ran by anyone. Session downgraded their encryption based on incorrect statements: https://getsession.org/blog/session-protocol-explained Anyone can run the SimpleX servers, there's many other public instances you can use instead. IP address is indeed an identifier, but not part of the messaging protocol itself. You always have to expose your IP address to third parties, it's just your choice who sees it (SimpleX servers, VPN, Tor, etc). Tor is also fully supported with in-app SOCKS proxy support and effectively kill switch for not connecting directly to non-onion servers, as well as .onion server mirrors. They wrote about it here: https://simplex.chat/blog/20240604-simplex-chat-v5.8-private-message-routing-chat-themes.html
Interesting info, you've given me a lot to read about. Thanks!
Does Keychat use post-quantum encryption?
No, Keychat uses the same libsignal codebase as the Signal app.
Signal added a post-quantum key exchange: https://signal.org/blog/pqxdh/
Yes, but the core codebase that the Signal app is using hasn't adopted it yet. https://github.com/signalapp/libsignal
I like the concepts, but the way that the messages load is irritating if you're in more than two or three groups. I also don't know how much I trust the way they anonymize users beyond the pseudonym feature. Comparing to Session's onion routing, it just feels a little bit less anonymous and secure. That said, I haven't looked real hard into it and I'm not an expert anyways.
It’s a fork of Signal though, isn’t it? And the security of that has been looked into quite rigorously already.
It has, I'm not saying that it's not trustworthy, but Signal definitely has a much longer track record and it's not run by a for-profit company like SimpleX.
I didn’t know SimpleX was for profit. Isn’t it an open source decentralized app/network run by the community, rather than by a “for profit” company?
It's both decentralized and open-source, and developed by a "for profit" entity that's funded by venture capital. At this time, there's no profitability, and no pressure to generate profit. The focus now is in creating the best possible private messaging platform.
Keyword here is 'now'. I understand they needed to make that shift of founding a company to receive funding, but their arguments why they did that weren't compelling (at least to me). Point is, someone will want to get his ROI someday. Possibly to the detriment of the users. Plus, a central company can be sued more easily (by law enforcement etc.)
Agreed. If they are just making the best product possible so that they can exploit their users for profit once they have network effect, and when it’s difficult to leave, that’s not good. That’s exactly what WhatsApp did. WhatsApp used to have great privacy, originally.
SimpleX's Private Routing feature, which is now enabled by default, plus tor is superior to Session. Not even close.
How so? Genuine question, I just don't quite understand how SimpleX has a better anonymity setup.
Oxchat 🥷 is better
I have to disagree. SimpleX has much better privacy at the moment. NIP-104 will help once it's complete and implemented in 0xchat, but SimpleX may retain an edge in privacy since users have no identity between chats. We could maybe approximate it by using a new nsec/npub in every chat we join, but I'm not familiar enough with the architecture to say for sure if that'd be fully equivalent.
Thanks for the input and the information. I thought that since it was built on Nostr 🟣 it would perform better with respect to privacy... it's good to keep learning! Thanks, I'll try simpleX too.
Nostr doesn't do a whole lot to protect your privacy at the protocol level. Your npub is public proof that every event you sign was signed by the same person or someone they authorized, unless they got your keys stolen, but whether it can be attached to you depends on your opsec. Relays are allowed to share your events freely to everyone, but they're also allowed to restrict access however they see fit. Encryption schema used for things like end to end encrypted chats are still not as private as competing non-nostr services, but advancements are being formalized so they can be put into use. Ultimately, the privacy nostr affords people will largely depend on how the software is built on top of it. Decentralization will provide a degree of protection, and a much appreciated one, but without stronger protections built into the protocol, it still depends on how we use it.
To match SimpleX, you need to have the same encryption (Signal Double Ratchet Algorithm) + post-quantim ratchets (like Apple & SimpleX have done https://security.apple.com/blog/imessage-pq3/ https://simplex.chat/blog/20240314-simplex-chat-v5-6-quantum-resistance-signal-double-ratchet-algorithm.html ) As well as using pairwise identifiers for messaging queues (separate sending receiving servers and address) which should be done automatically, behind the scenes so users don't have to create a separate identity for each contact.
Much better than simple twitter.
Doesn't use nostr though, we will make a better one
I use it to send dissident poems between frens.
Ok anyone want to try out a group chat? Just set up a group for nostr frens https://simplex.chat/contact#/?v=2-4&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FUkMFNAXLXeAAe0beCa4w6X_zp18PwxSaSjY17BKUGXQ%3D%40smp12.simplex.im%2F2iQjFHBxKuLBCRxQKzid9cBGuQ57Ipbw%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-2%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEA9GwkANlI_IOpGjf5Mm4mIodTbTvXaoDnProCEvHm9Bc%253D%26srv%3Die42b5weq7zdkghocs3mgxdjeuycheeqqmksntj57rmejagmg4eor5yd.onion&data=%7B%22type%22%3A%22group%22%2C%22groupLinkId%22%3A%22J2XM4AMPgqImsrjlTDbUOA%3D%3D%22%7D #simplex #nostr #privacy
Auto accept?
Should be. See you trying to connect twice. Possibly check your vpn settings?
I've been testing it for about a year or so. Relay really like it and the progress they've been making. I've played with creating personal chat bot to go do web service things with it. I like the multiple profile aspect of friends/family vs private to chat in simplex public groups if you like. I'd like to understand if simplex protocol is better in privacy and security than current or Dev path of Nostr DM protocol. I'd like Simplex to be able to support Nostr protocol as a rail to have Nostr contacts info added to Simplex profile interface to handshake them into a temporary Simplex session using Simplex features like say a video call or chats so that those are not on public relays as example. I saw Jack gave some funding to the team as support. Nice.
SimpleX could use Nostr for discovery, but it requires support from clients first. It would be very easy to add a field for SimpleX addresses, as was made in this proposal: https://github.com/retrnull/garnet/issues/8 Once this is added, SimpleX could add in-app support for discovery via Nostr, similar to how many Lightning wallets already do it.
And Nostr DMs are simply unsafe at the moment.
As someone nu to nostr, that's what I was wondering
nostr:nevent1qqs04jkx6rxfnzs8a3dc3gxsqpvjhe9yat74y3hdmfw53efeu22g6qcpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qexv22uulqnmlluszc4yk92jhs2e5ajcs6mu3t00a6avzjcalj9csxpqqqqqqzehrms0
I read into it before and wasn’t quite sold. But I’ll check it out this time. 👍
I'm on that and Arcane Chat
https://simplex.chat/contact#/?v=2-7&smp=smp%3A%2F%2Fhejn2gVIqNU6xjtGM3OwQeuk8ZEbDXVJXAlnSBJBWUA%3D%40smp16.simplex.im%2FZUmOQNmDezsECOt7-8ve53OVCIRsA_5C%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-3%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEAmnuPAChpQ8iOrdJvO3K4V1t_fNW16N9WZvjI7CpiwwA%253D%26srv%3Dp3ktngodzi6qrf7w64mmde3syuzrv57y55hxabqcq3l5p6oi7yzze6qd.onion https://m.primal.net/Kgyz.png nostr:note1qr54dkvflwpz3wuxxn3gzq9wpnhnd566rl7yga59epeupuvn9chsmnuutl Running SimpleX
It will get better when they solve the battery draining issue in Android...
If you don't have a need to be notified instantly, you can set your notifications to "start periodically". Doesn't use much battery and better privacy.
They're working on it. It's not actually one single problem, but the cumulative effects of several different things. We've been trying to convince them to integrate UnifiedPush via custom ntfy.sh services, and they're starting to take the idea seriously, which is promising. If they do that, 90% of the battery drain issues will be resolved.
r u fr
Can recommend, too. nostr:note1qr54dkvflwpz3wuxxn3gzq9wpnhnd566rl7yga59epeupuvn9chsmnuutl
who is the creator and how can it evade the same fate as the recent Telegram interference from the psychos?
It's decentralized and doesn't rely on any central servers. It was designed to be censorship and restriction resistant.
sounds good but where are the servers and who owns them etc how can I verify please?
Servers are owned by whoever wants to run one. And they're located all over. Many individuals and organizations are running SMP (message) servers, and you can setup your own in literally under a minute. It's the basis for the decentralized, distributed architecture.
where can I order a server please?
If you'd like to run your own server, or just look at the code for the SMP server, you can find what you need on SimpleX Chat's GitHub. Here's a link to the latest server software: 👉 https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/releases/tag/v6.0.3
Is it better than Signal? Why?
Signal was literally developed on same place where the NSA headquarters are based and until recently received tens of million dollars from the US government, the founder was a director at Twitter. This is all public information that you can verify for yourself There's a reason why only Telegram is accused of hiding terrorists and yet signal never (seldom) gets that kind of newspaper attention. Never trust someone who worked at Twitter. Always do the opposite of what they say. On this case: stay with the nostr private messages.
Nostrchat.io
Yes!
Yeah, but remeber to back up folks or lose everything - cough cough. @LakeDistrictBTC
😂 lessons learnt… vicariously may I add 😉.. coughy cough cough.!!
If you're using GrapheneOS then the Signal fork that is Molly-FOSS from the new Accrescent app store is also very good. No proprietary Google code + some of the functions that were going to be included in Signal but were never implemented. SimpleX is certainly smooth for sure.
If you're using GrapheneOS then the Signal fork that is Molly-FOSS from the new Accrescent app store is also very good. No proprietary Google code + some of the functions that were going to be included in Signal but were never implemented. SimpleX is certainly smooth for sure.
Nice, I had to uninstalled it a couple of weeks ago because it was draining my battery a lot, even ifnI didn't open it in the whole day. But I'll try it again soon.
is that true? i installed it last night. next day my phone battery drained to 30% half day its very unusual. i was wondering whats happening.
yes... quite good I would say 👍🏼 nostr:note1qr54dkvflwpz3wuxxn3gzq9wpnhnd566rl7yga59epeupuvn9chsmnuutl
I've been using for 6 months or so. It needs work but I'm here to support it for increased privacy. The UI has gotten better and will continue to over time. Most people cant put up with a little crappy UI in order to see the bigger picture. Do not comply.
Agree! And I did set up my own server! :) really cool app!
You convinced me to try It. Yes It have some advantages comparse to the existing Messengers. The architetture Is very close tò nostr tò the point that they should merge for the benefits of both projects
Until battery issues are solved it would not receive wide adoption. I cannot convince anybody to use it just because of this. I feel battery issues would be priority number one for development. With signal I have instant messaging without battery drainage. Thank you
I don't have excessive battery drain with it. How much are you seeing??
Using the always on feature instead of every 10 min check, I am seeing 40%
Ah, I will review that. Certainly the notification choicea for all privacy apps are an issue still. For example - Damus beta is testing out their new notification server today. All the regular notification methods send that data into big tech Co. Vomit. 🤮
necesito hablar contigo, copia mi QR
Started using it now-love it
Share your link jack!
Get in touch via simpleX🔗 Text me now with your name and location https://simplex.chat/invitation#/?v=2-7&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FenEkec4hlR3UtKx2NMpOUK_K4ZuDxjWBO1d9Y4YXVaA%3D%40smp14.simplex.im%2FwYSyMTAHXRG-9tvDfdd7yKUCza1S2Q26%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-3%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEAmueTyzV8u_sXKxRSYdELGBnnm78s25n1-NpO9SfXAT4%253D%26k%3Ds%26srv%3Daspkyu2sopsnizbyfabtsicikr2s4r3ti35jogbcekhm3fsoeyjvgrid.onion&e2e=v%3D2-3%26x3dh%3DMEIwBQYDK2VvAzkAFOqig3xCPo9qG3qyVt5FRMydeKJAXTpQO_kpiXB0AIiYs2gAkYmJttFaWTKAxbnCQFj6j1bL5dU%3D%2CMEIwBQYDK2VvAzkAu6YwlvJAUSji-k78yCgS3s3tb5eI9Yg6_MYCU5HX6ogj3sltyDk2HBBf124XdCMOXO1IqEYngdg%3D
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Já deixei ele para trás. Olhando o matrix.
Get in touch with me:https://simplex.chat/invitation#/?v=2-7&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FPtsqghzQKU83kYTlQ1VKg996dW4Cw4x_bvpKmiv8uns%3D%40smp18.simplex.im%2FkMQ7GFM7eMUeqYntgeSK82Ib_2enaRdY%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-3%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEAKgJSkvH0h80wtaReSa8zFxLgZATh8or5PjQWXpByhHA%253D%26k%3Ds%26srv%3Dlyqpnwbs2zqfr45jqkncwpywpbtq7jrhxnib5qddtr6npjyezuwd3nqd.onion&e2e=v%3D2-3%26x3dh%3DMEIwBQYDK2VvAzkA9zmSrscx80fD8qo2Xyy_wGmiYIRKdlhKAvxbxMJibL1jE3SJzPtjnLN5g8gVvGbhEgDZT54C8zk%3D%2CMEIwBQYDK2VvAzkAPcUjJ_YwAUDt4u4UNcbWbzp5hy1EeRF15jOL09Vk-fwibtIuDHaEvatXXZdjwh_mwxIj_uIbqT0%3D
Eu estou testando app de chat/mensageiros pq não quero ficar na merda na hora em que o verdinho que todo mundo ama, implodir. Tenho o mesmo problema de quem mexe com "o novo" pois as pessoas não aceitam mudança. Não aceitam sair da zona de conforto. Estou aqui porque tirei a bunda da minha e estou testando alguns clientes para me decidir em qual vou morar. Então, estou em busca de um mensageiro e um de vídeos. É basicamente isto. Já olhei o Simplex e meu público alvo não vai usar. Minhas ovelhas são revoltadas..
Could SimpleX run in a browser tab like the web versions of telegram, whatsapp, skype ?
https://simplex.chat/invitation#/?v=2-7&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FPtsqghzQKU83kYTlQ1VKg996dW4Cw4x_bvpKmiv8uns%3D%40smp18.simplex.im%2FkMQ7GFM7eMUeqYntgeSK82Ib_2enaRdY%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-3%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEAKgJSkvH0h80wtaReSa8zFxLgZATh8or5PjQWXpByhHA%253D%26k%3Ds%26srv%3Dlyqpnwbs2zqfr45jqkncwpywpbtq7jrhxnib5qddtr6npjyezuwd3nqd.onion&e2e=v%3D2-3%26x3dh%3DMEIwBQYDK2VvAzkA9zmSrscx80fD8qo2Xyy_wGmiYIRKdlhKAvxbxMJibL1jE3SJzPtjnLN5g8gVvGbhEgDZT54C8zk%3D%2CMEIwBQYDK2VvAzkAPcUjJ_YwAUDt4u4UNcbWbzp5hy1EeRF15jOL09Vk-fwibtIuDHaEvatXXZdjwh_mwxIj_uIbqT0%3D
Just got an invite to chat with you on it! Was it a spam? Anyhow, I downloaded the app and tried to connect through the QR code and that horrendously long link to it but it took me nowhere fast... Would love to chat, how can we make that happen?
https://image.nostr.build/8d61b6f6e02ec339d48e58c250fa634c1aab38c87b74f841b4c88ec9b4e84f25.jpg https://image.nostr.build/e8c5c8c7c9a15f76f355348ead90a51aed0b6108bd9908f71c0182a7a60c95b0.jpg
This is wrong in so many ways and should be a separate criminal charge.... My Father is gone, and 6 months later my loved one passed casing severe pain to me - to target me for a fake love scam preying on my vulnerability when I joined bitcoin conference is so wrong.......
www.bulltradeinvests.com- scamners Liar presents it as this is investment with Nostr
And scamner additionally to fraudulent investment platform exploited his identity to run a romance scam
And inverted my picture forever. Can I truly call it natural chatlist sort order view? nostr:nevent1qqsqp62kmxylhq3ghwrrfc5pqzhqemek6ddpllzyw6zusu7q7xfjutcp8amhxue69uhkummnw3ez6atnvyhxkcf3va3x2mmpxgckymnd9e6hxtthv4ehgtfj9e3hxtnpd4sh5mmwd35kw6r5wdskjmpwvdhk6tczyzprg8ug9dh2hnft5lc7ly92m9su7p6279deaaz2p8ua928ml0n2yqcyqqqqqqg497uas
I am loving SimpleX... nostr:nevent1qqsqp62kmxylhq3ghwrrfc5pqzhqemek6ddpllzyw6zusu7q7xfjutcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduhsygyzxs0cs2mw40xjhfl3a7g24ktpeur54u2mnm6y5z0e6250h7lx5gpsgqqqqqqseef74r
nostr:nevent1qqsp89tvrru0e4rgrqvetd8wxdrjpcd3u58ratmgg4kdnut2p6dvc2qpz9mhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejj7q3qqktjyk0vdqlfss7wztawdnka5phx2p3vlvq50x0z402jk2fjhtnqxpqqqqqqzl72tq3
