Oddbean new post about login | logout October bills were $120 for AWS compute, $80 for Cloudflare storage and CDN, $50 for video transcoding compute, $250 total. We sold 15 accounts for 510k sats / $188. Almost break even! Thank you all for your support, donations, account purchases, everything. @The Fishcake🐶🐾 and I are very passionate about making sure nostr.build provides an awesome service for the entire nostr community 🤙
My images go to nostr.build so have this donation to help with the bill 🤙 thanks for the service
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Curious to why one would utilize AWS for Nostr enhancement isn’t there a way we can have these tools for Nostr on Nostr ?
Asking each relay to store images/videos makes running a relay extremely expensive. Relays don't need to store them but just links to them.
@983d344d , it’s a lot harder and more expensive than it seems.. We have looked at many options trying to be more decentralized, but IPFS and Torrent aren’t reliable and hard to dev in, nodes are designed for text, images are hard and expensive.. The best way we can be ‘decentralized’ is to support and promote other image uploaders: nostrimg.com, nostrcheck.me, satellite.earth/cdn, void.cat, to build your own image uploader, we provide FOSS and present on how at Nostr events, and continue to innovate.. We are working on ways to work with other media uploaders hosting each others media/copies providing more decentralization.. Until then, your memes are safe on Nostr.build, and if it is sensitive and important material, we recommend hosting yourself or another service.
nostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkjnostr:npub12262qa4uhw7u8gdwlgmntqtv7aye8vdcmvszkqwgs0zchel6mz7s6cgrkj @nostr.build if you where hired to work on this problem full time will you take it on ?
I don’t want to be “hired”, e.g. work for someone to solve the problems they think is a priority. I am working on this now and purely out of pass and for free (I am not taking any profits so far). What exactly are you proposing? Work on a specific problem of decentralized media delivery that is fast and accessible, and works across all clients? 🐶🐾🫡
@The Fishcake🐶🐾 maybe I’m mistaken I never extended any offer to you nor asked anything pertaining to what you are working on or what you want.
Fishcake is my partner and lead dev for nostr.build. He is a world-class dev that has completely rewrote nostr.build code making it safe, reliable, feature rich and open source. We have had many conversations about decentralized media, creating a platform around it, and there are currently too many challenges, costs, etc. especially since 90% of our media is memes and fun pics. *Name a reliable centralized media storage site/project/offering, there aren’t any.. It’s not easy. My guess is it would take a team of well funded engineers 2-3 years+ to create this.
*Name a reliable de-centralized media storage.. (fixed typo from above)
Then why are you complaining we get the problem I’m saying if the resources where allocated are you willing to get to work?
I’m not complaining and absolutely.
Seems like there is some misunderstanding. I don’t think either of us are complaining, we are probably just talking about different things. @983d344d could you please elaborate what you are proposing in a single note so we stay on one page? Thank you! 🐶🐾🫂🙏🏻
Sorry, I might have wrote my reply in too dry of a tone, wasn’t my intention. I was just trying to explain the motivation behind what I was doing. I do agree that having a well funded people working on a solution could yield higher chances for success. 🐶🐾🫂
Sorry for creating a mess on there. But I think I'm down to 10% storage usage wise. I didn't do it on purpose 😅
Messes are encouraged, especially if they use a lot of space 🤣😂🤣
Focus on the goal, the sats will come in time. Congratulations on your work. I'm very happy with my build account.
Considering we are a startup, we’re doing great! For the year we are in profit ~ .15 BTC!
Bullish on nostr.build 🐂📈
thats amazing
p2p is the solution keet.io
I appreciate what you do for the community, zap!
Curious why are you using AWS at all? Couldn’t you only use a Cloudflare Worker with the R2 bucket instead? @The Fishcake🐶🐾
We are. We are also using AWS because this is how it started before I was involved 🐶🐾🫡
My favorite critic! What approach do you recommend? You write node code, want to work with us on something?
@The Fishcake🐶🐾 and @quentin are working on something like that. Only that we keep the same mediauploader code, but use a standard(nip?) to share files and serve from one or the other.. They might have more detail..
Not sure of the detail, but there in lies the issue. It is not built yet, will require multiple devs to agree and implement, will take time and money, etc. It is ideal, but not ready, yet. Of all the media uploaders I mentioned and out there, NONE of them do anything like this, because it’s hard! In the meantime our nostr centralized media uploaders (nostr.build, void.cat, nostrimg.com, nostrcheck.me, satellite.earth/cdn) are fine for basic memes and photos. We are strongly advocating people not add anything too personal or sensitive and to use their own servers for that. @semisol , I agree an awesome decentralized media uploader and repository is needed for Nostr, but we need something until it’s built 🤙
Let’s take this offline, chat with Fishcake and Quentin, and see what this service would even look like. Dev time, cost, what exactly is needed etc.
I have a proof of concept developed in Coracle, files are uploaded to multiple hosts at once via NIP96 and nip94 events are generated for each file with all URLs. We are working in parallel with Fishcake to standardize the communication between hosts, allowing more advanced features in the future. If you want to test what I say clone the NIP96 branch of Coracle, made by me. On the other hand, congratulations nostr.build 😀, I will soon have to make a decision about it (paid accounts), NIP05 services are not expensive, but multimedia hosting is very expensive!!
build a nostr app with holepunch, no relays or media servers needed
You plan to upload 1TB of content per month from your phone or ISP? 🐶🐾🤔
i already upload way more than that, the thing with p2p is it depends on the nodes, incentives, what they are doing with a widespread p2p platform the traditional client server model can not compete as physics dictates local bandwidth and resources is always greater and cheaper keet is already scaling with massive rooms relays and servers are over, obsolete
Who said that we are using traditional servers to host. P2P has a lot of legal implications too for many, since the internet is not free of bad actors 🐶🐾🫡
so incentives, control what you seed p2p is the solution, it routes around laws you know you can be jailed for speech, jailed for memes, jailed in america? jailed in france for criticizing israel? deported? jailed in the uk for criticizing hamas? shitting on p2p is big tech cope there is no bad speech only bad ideas and you cant change them without speech
I am talking about CSAM, not the other crap. 🐶🐾🫡
Aren’t we all?
its a red herring used to push censorship, nothing more the same people screaming about kiddy porn are off fucking kids on epsteins island the same people screaming about terrorists are off funding it all over the world the same people wanting to eaves drop on every moment of your life dont want to know anything about theirs they dont want you to know what your government was doing 90 years ago let alone 50 years ago, 10 years ago or today how can you vote for people you dont know what they do? how is it democracy?
CSAM is an actual problem, and it is out there, and it will put you in jail. It doesn’t matter what you think, because it does exist and almost unavoidable at this point 🐶🐾🫡
yes but there is a lot of other speech that will put you in jail now too funny how these things like child sex and drugs which are used to blackmail and control leaders and more are freely used by the secret state and have only recently become a huge issue @Dissident Sound
Dude, it doesn’t matter, most people just want to post pics of their food and pets, and nobody wants to risk their livelihood for that. People don’t even want to think about that, they expect things to just work 🐶🐾😭
For you it doesn’t, but I don’t know what exactly you are talking about.
watch the movie Pretty Baby ( 1978 ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Baby_(1978_film) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078111/ it's a movie about the daughter of a prostitute who begins working as a prostitute at age 12 and her virginity is auctioned off by the whorehouse and the price is so high that men who can't afford it start fighting each other ... at no point in the movie is it suggested that it's wrong for a 12 year old girl to have sex with men in their 40s ... nor is it suggested that she is in any way traumatized by it ... it's still a very sad movie / drama but for reasons completely unrelated to sex with minors ... it's a good movie ... Brooke Shields who played the 12 year old later said this movie couldn't be made today due to various faggot laws we have now ...
Then where is it?
Why haven’t you or anyone else done it?
DMs, nostrnests and Google docs?
Ok, so you are criticizing my ‘approach’ for an idea that nobody has thought of but you, and you don’t have the time to implement it!?! I think you have the wrong ‘approach’ on telling my about my approach 🤣 Anyway, let me get fishcake’s take, and we can setup a meeting. Would be better if we just all build something together!
File hosting in hostile environments requires chunking to prevent delay attacks. Now Nostr has Merkle DAGs that are faster than IPFS’s, without the complexity of IPFS. You can store media in multiple places and switch as you please, as Semisol described. Check out my presentation at Nostrasia and the new whitepaper, just released last night. Iris.to will be the first client to integrate the multimedia merkle trees. nostr:note1xqfcx3nq9tqyj9ctw0enctsx4kxfd9r0nctt69rapslw0apa3r3s46qyeg
Not a fan of this level of complexity. Also don’t think that allowing user to name the final url is a great idea. We already discussed having file hosts advertise on nostr with replaceable events, so not opposed to that. I think we need to think in phases here. Start with simple migration between the hosts (media host can actually use nip-96 too), have some abstraction on top of the media url scheme, allow client to resolve file location based on their preferences 🐶🐾🤔
I don’t know how most of this works so I’m just gonna throw some sats around. Thank y’all for the work I plan on filming my belly button later and we’ll see if it uploads.
Looking forward to your vid, thanks! 🐶🐾🤣🫂🙏🏻
Complexity and trying to get the clients onto the same page. It’s already hard to get a new client out of the door, and if we add this it becomes harder. And which “not good idea” are you referring to, since I mentioned a couple 🐶🐾🫡
Looking forward to your vid, thanks! 🐶🐾🤣🫂🙏🏻
Ah, yes. Extra headache for client and the server, because we have to store it somewhere and who knows what exploits or bugs will come out of some “smart hackersz” to make life miserable for the rest of us 🐶🐾🤣
I need my current setup to complete testing and implementation, and spare hardware will not cut it. As for long-term use, the reliability is required too, and I am not sure I have time to code all the plumbing to ensure it with spare capacity donations 🐶🐾🫡 (I wish people would donate their time and skills)
You actually could use DVMs to decentralize it 👀
Wrong solution for the problem, and DVM doesn’t scale 🐶🐾🫡
You actually could use DVMs to decentralize it 👀
Wrong solution for the problem, and DVM doesn’t scale 🐶🐾🫡
Then you don't use them anymore or only use a couple of "trusted" ones.
Well that's the free market on nostr. An app, user or service provider can choose to use the dvms that do the job best/fastest/cheapest und people can participate to provide resources to that, as well as other clients that have the same need. It's not unnecessary. It's a feature.
Wrong solution for the problem, and DVM doesn’t scale 🐶🐾🫡