Oddbean

@0c1a9324 @f3ad697a @639ed14f @c39d2605 OK, OK. Yes. But... I was in a group where a mentally ill person was a member. He would sometimes lose his temper & say things that made people uncomfortable. Some people wanted to exclude him, but a woman argued (persuasively) that if you want to be inclusive, you need to accept that some people will make you uncomfortable. And if you want to create a welcoming, inclusive environment you have to tolerate a certain amount of discomfort. Not murder tho.

@24a394fa @0c1a9324 @f3ad697a @639ed14f @c39d2605 The issue with this is the resources needed to sustain that. Even just one person with RMS-tier issues consumes enormous amounts of resources to deal with, and I think most people vastly underestimate just how much. At the hackspace I co-founded, we had several such cases and our stance was that we were first and foremost a hackspace, not a free mental health care center. You have to choose your battles.

@7f73a7d1 @24a394fa @0c1a9324 @639ed14f @c39d2605 mental health also isn't an excuse for persistently being an asshole, especially after being repeatedly told that a specific behaviour is unacceptable. assuming that someone can't learn to be better "because mental health" is infantilising (and kinda ableist, too).

@f3ad697a @24a394fa @0c1a9324 @639ed14f @c39d2605 You're right. Something like "social care center" would be more fitting. The way I intended that was not to describe the kind of issue of the person, but instead the kind of qualification you need to deal with it.

@7f73a7d1 @24a394fa @0c1a9324 @639ed14f @c39d2605 for sure; I wasn't criticising your handling of the hackspace thing, and we've had similar issues at our local one. I think a healthier way to frame it is that some people aren't at a place in life where they're able to have a healthy relationship with certain communities, and that isn't the fault of those communities. we can have patience and be welcoming and understanding, but that relationship has to be a two-way street.

@7f73a7d1 @24a394fa @0c1a9324 @f3ad697a @639ed14f @c39d2605 It's a tricky situation and I think it's also worth considering the nature of the problem--if you're asking people to accept discomfort versus asking people to tolerate harassment. It's worth trying to find ways to be inclusive but also important that a space not just be a free-for-all in terms of what behaviors are tolerated otherwise you wind up with only people who are either privileged or harassers and other people are scared off.