Oddbean new post about login | logout Respectfully disagree. If the end state is the same(preventing coinjoins), it feels like a distracting semantics hamster wheel to even debate filter vs censor. At best you’re totally right and it stops here. At worst this drives social consensus towards this becoming censoring by your state definition, and a startling number of people already seem on board with this. We are unfortunately in a world where waking up and Ocean, F2Pool, and Foundry all “filtering” coinjoins is a very real possibility. In this world I think an immediate and aggressive social rejection of “filtering” is a must. We are indisputably at least on the slippery slope. If we don’t charge back up, we might just keep sliding down forever.
No one has the goal of filtering coinjoins. Coinjoins are still allowed by Ocean and they aren’t taking any stance against privacy tools at all. It is only Samourai who got caught because of a particular way they use the OP_RETURN data.
Totally understand. My point is the same as Odell’s. This is a social issue masquerading as a technical issue. If this was a pure accident and will be fixed, why didn’t ocean and Luke immediately apologize and vow to make it right? After a huge amount of pressure and many mealy mouthed jargon laden dodges that refused to apologize or entertain any semblance of fault luke finally gave a vague half promise he’d be willing to work towards a solution. I want to assume good intent, but this is not the behavior of someone who swallows their pride and admits they made an honest mistake and intend to fix it. This is someone who is prioritizing being right and pride over the reality that, intentionally or accidentally, they have created a legitimate problem that is frustrating the community and purpose they purported to serve.
Always respect though and appreciate your work. Have used your coldcard referral code in the past and big fan.
All other coinjoin implementation besides whirlpool are not mathematically deterministic and are currently being demixxed by chain analysis the use of op return allows for TxO which ensures fees are paid, acts as a sybil attack defense and creates the unified values it isn’t buggy, broken or in need of a fix — people who have never coded a successful coinjoin sure seem to have a lot to say about how they should work
Where are you getting the idea that I’ve made any of these arguments. Please stop arguing with me over a conversation you had with someone else. For one, I don’t know much about the methodology and made no claim to whether it was good/bad or better/worse than anything else. I said the fact that Samourai coinjoins got filtered wasn’t because they were trying to filter coinjoins. Which based one everything we know, is perfectly true. If their method is better, then that’s cool 👍🏻 As I prefaced all of this, I think it’s a bad way to go about this filtering and the OP_RETURN issue is moot. Luke is just especially stubborn, imo. On the issue of JPEGS, I think you could safely filter OP_FALSE txs which are necessary to make all the JPEG info specifically meaningless, but still be able to include it. Which, as I understand it, means it can be filtered safely, knowing that none of the Txs with that data mean anything anyway. This filters JPEGS for clients that want to, and shouldn’t drag any privacy tools with it.
Apologies if I misunderstood