Oddbean new post about login | logout BITCOIN CONSENSUS IS NOT DICTATED BY TWITTER. WILL NOT UPDATE ANY OF MY NODES TO SUPPORT OP_CAT. WILL TREAT ANY ATTEMPT TO PUSH THROUGH ACTIVATION AS HOSTILE.
Need to produce something of value though or the off ramps will decide which fork the market follows. https://youtu.be/X_xgmVLyB94?si=lGcZl8epLJ2KHs_x
yes, where (what off ramps) I will sell for value would be where I point hash, nodes, protocols, etc. in a fork
I don’t get the fear. Bitcoin script is sandboxed in memory (520) and compute (5 sec). No OPs could possibly harm the network. So what’s wrong?
840000x5s=48 days What is the definition of 5s of compute time when a cpu could vary from a 1970 C4004 to a quantum galactic computer?
IBD has taken too long for awhile now. ZK rollups are a real solution. 5s is just meant to mean “way to long” for any computer, 5000ms is an eternity.
OP_CAT sounds discriminatory to all dogs and dog-selfidentifying cats. They should look for a more inclusive OP name, like OP_RETARD.
WEN OP_DOG?
If OP_CAT is being heavily encouraged by the Ordinals crowd, bad actors in the Bitcoin space, and people wanting to do it "for the memes" it's absolutely 100% going to be a no from me, dawg.
does meme coin has a value?
Sorry. Meme coins have no intrinsic value.
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value
this is true. all value is subjective
True, but meme coins like dogecoin started as a joke. Finding subjective value in dogecoin is like trying to make a living as a stand up comedian by asking, "Why did the chicken cross the road?"
some would say the market cost to produce would be a form of intrinsic value
Some would be wrong. All value is subjective. The amount of energy and depreciating capitol miners are willing to apply to generating bitcoin, plus a small margin, dictates the sale price of new coins.
i don't follow why subjective value and intrinsic value can't coexist in concept or perhaps I'm just confused on this thread
I heard just yesterday that the Ordinals crowd has been inspired to Rev up nodes. Over 1000. They are serious.
why do i feel another block size war coming on?
I just got done reading the book and it’s exactly the same
eerie
They motivated and they believe in what they’re doing, which sounds absurd to me, but they are getting it together and running Bitcoin. What the hell are we doing?
bitching about safety and harassment. you know, freedom larping.
you know derek mad when he bust out the "dawg" hahaha im where ur at dawg
There’s a lot of people who aren’t ordinals people who like OP_CAT https://medium.com/blockstream/cat-and-schnorr-tricks-i-faf1b59bd298
FUCK THE WIZARD CATS AND ALL THEIR SCAMS
Yes, but it would be a soft fork, so we would need to do more than just not update.
This is only partially true. If miners activate a soft fork - say op cat, and no nodes update then you get a chain split. Miners fear this because it would be a massive headache for them and likely reduce their revenues. Admittedly if there is a miner activated soft fork you don’t need a majority of nodes to update, but you do need a significant amount of them. That threshold is unknowable in advance but I’ve heard it theorized around 20-25%.
You are the beacon! We listen to your take on almost everything freedom tech! Even in the jungle. Freedom is a path less travelled by most 🙏
THERE IS 0 REASON TO ACTIVATE CAT WHEN CTV IS WAY LESS RISKY, IF WE WANT COVENANTS
GOOD CONVERSATION TOPIC NEXT TIME nostr:npub1az9xj85cmxv8e9j9y80lvqp97crsqdu2fpu3srwthd99qfu9qsgstam8y8INVITES @rot13maxi TO SHILL HIS BAG OF CATS ON @BitcoinReview
I’m willing to keep an open mind and hear the other side out, but even after a lot of researching I still see no reason for OP_CAT over LNHANCE or CTV. Also, may need to pause on all of these to give The Great Script Restoration more time.
you don't have to, miners can activate it anyway
This is only partially true. Even if there was a successful miner activation of any soft fork, there is a minimum threshold of nodes required to update to prevent a chain split. Miners fear chain splits and would be highly unlikely to push a soft fork that would create one because they would cause big problems and reduced revenue for miners. We saw this play out during the blocksize wars.
Thats not true at all if that were true segwit 2x would have easily been included into the chain, the sad truth for morons who don't understand how Bitcoin works is that economic nodes control Bitcoin not mining nodes. And the economic nodes are made up of a decentralized majority of long term hodlers who dont like to pass through bullshit because some centralized dev team told them to.
Do you have a podcast episode covering this topic? I’m not well informed on this issue.
Shinobi talking with Peter http://youtu.be/seOK8CujQQI?t=3455
I FINALLY GET TO DISAGREE WITH ODELL ABOUT SOMETHING nostr:note1prrgyfue7xxaazapa3lg3p568tpd8883hnunta0ddvmu5ptljyhs2quhg8
WE SHOULD ALL SAY FUCK THAT TO OP_CAT nostr:nevent1qqsq335zy7vlrrw73ws7cl5gs6dr4sknnncme7f47hkkkd72q4leztcpvemhxue69uhkv6tvw3jhytnwdaehgu3wwa5kuef0dec82c33xashymtywejhz7f5xf6ksat4w4mk5ce4d5exgem2ddarwaphv4cxwanhwp6kxcm3wuux5atnd5ux6vr8x3ekuwpkdcehx0mzwfhkzerrv9ehg0t5wf6k2q3qqny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysxpqqqqqqzefcw3f
Have someone who is pro and someone who is anti OP_CAT on citadel dispatch and discuss please
Yes please @ODELL
We really need to stop trying to change things, it’s already perfect.
No it isn’t. Bitcoin doesn’t scale in current state. It’s perfect if you like custodial bitcoin and ETFs
OP_CAT + OP_CTV = recursive #covenants = immutable on-chain KYC for #Bitcoin Seriously, who can be in support of this?
First I have heard of it. Probably cause I'm NOSTR ONLY
I am sad to hear that. As Andrew Poelstra says OP_CAT (with added limitations to fix the issues why it was disabled by Satoshi), is probably one of the smallest and safest soft forks we can do. It is just a few lines of code. If we can't do even this, it's very bad. We have to overcome the ptsd trauma from segwit activation drama.. All these recently proposed opcodes are MUCH smaller scope of changes that Taproot or Segwit softforks. And we can't frweez development of L1 of we want to support self custody for more people. It's either L1 continues to develop of custody solutions for most users.
“It’s just a few lines of code” is already a red flag
No it's not, it's important context that many people don't know. Compared to segwit and Schnorr that were huge. You can reason much more easily about small code change. Of course that itself doesn't make it safe, but it is important to know this.
From my know nothing eyes seems like a gateway to CBDC attributes- on top of bitcoin(?) OP CAT (?): ‘agreements built into your Bitcoins, ensuring they can only be spent under specific conditions – like only after a certain date or to a particular address’ This 👆🏼already exists within certain fiat circles - and in my direct experience - is a nightmare. Some things can’t be fixed. Hard NO
Every address encodes spending conditions. Typically the condition is “can sign”. When you make a wallet, you opt into whatever conditions you want to put on those addresses. Single sig, multisig, timelocks, etc. Providing more script functionality doesn’t change this. You still opt into whatever conditions you want for addresses you make and give out.
odell signaling support for team slow steady, prefers bip300 drivechains to op_cat drivechains: nostr:nevent1qqsq335zy7vlrrw73ws7cl5gs6dr4sknnncme7f47hkkkd72q4leztcpz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumt0wd68ytnsw43qygqyey2a4mlw8qchlfe5g39vacus4qnflevppv3yre0xm56rm7lveypsgqqqqqqsfsrhze
It's a war on #bitcoin by decentralized evil. https://mirror.xyz/shreme.eth/Y6mi9enyvdtmTXYyaaFXxr5LpoQO4I-P11UyEfmpBNE
Gonna hack your node and update it to include op_cats like this one https://image.nostr.build/fdeb7422bc52cc6ef93acde24decf2c6645dcd9b42b0c5433453e526dee14425.jpg
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@ODELL Hearing you with bitcoin design talk about how you don't discuss or put energy into soft forks that aren't merged. Why this comment then? nostr:nevent1qqsq335zy7vlrrw73ws7cl5gs6dr4sknnncme7f47hkkkd72q4leztcpz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfdupzqpxfzhdwlm3cx9l6wdzyft8w8y9gy607tqgtyfq7tekaxs7lhmxfqvzqqqqqqydgshrt
stupid scripts. the utility is currency and the feature is settlements. Anything else isn't needed.
this is how Bitcoin consensus work: the default answer to any change proposal is NO. Then we might talk about it.
We are not talking about software; we are talking about a protocol for separating money and state.
Still software
