Oddbean new post about login | logout Full of hate for who? Those who murder innocent people and those who agree with that murder? Is that your issue?
is hate of humans by other humans ever okay? this man doesn't know "nice people" who have killed children. he is talking about regular everyday people who are uneducated or brainwashed. he is not being compassionate or forgiving Qur'an 41:34, 42:40
I fully understand your perspective, but a human can most definitely hate another human, and that’s not something anyone can realistically deny. If one can, in a morally correct manner, hate someone who does evil, like how I hate Hitler for murdering many innocent civilians, I also hate the one who didn’t murder them but fully defends him and his ideology. That doesn’t mean that this hatred will cause me to be unjust or evil to them, as Allah commanded us not to do that, but that doesn’t mean one should love them as if their corrupt beliefs is somehow equal. They are not equal to Hitler, but deserve some level of rebuke. Allaah said about this specifically in the Quraan لَّا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ لَمۡ یُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَلَمۡ یُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ وَتُقۡسِطُوۤا۟ إِلَیۡهِمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ یُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِینَ﴿ ٨ ﴾ and He does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just. Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 8 So Allaah orders being good and just with those who don’t materialise any corruption towards us. But Allah does say in the next verse in regards to those who act on their evil intentions إِنَّمَا یَنۡهَىٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِینَ قَـٰتَلُوكُمۡ فِی ٱلدِّینِ وَأَخۡرَجُوكُم مِّن دِیَـٰرِكُمۡ وَظَـٰهَرُوا۟ عَلَىٰۤ إِخۡرَاجِكُمۡ أَن تَوَلَّوۡهُمۡۚ وَمَن یَتَوَلَّهُمۡ فَأُو۟لَـٰۤىِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلظَّـٰلِمُونَ﴿ ٩ ﴾ But God forbids you to take as allies those who have fought against you for your faith, driven you out of your homes, and helped others to drive you out: any of you who take them as allies will truly be wrongdoers. Al-Mumtaḥanah, Ayah 9 One clear disclaimer to note, this hatred is for the actions and evil they contain, it doesn’t extend beyond that. So if they stop or change their ways, problem solved. Issue is resolved and not held in perpetuity. So the fact they may be “brainwashed” is reason to spend time and effort to educate them. The point I took from the video was that some people have held levels of evil that wasn’t previously noticed. I can never be a friend or likes someone who openly defends Israel’s actions to my brothers and sisters. They are my family.
I asked if hate was okay, not if it was possible. I respectfully ask again, is it ever okay to hate another human? Not the deeds, but the human being himself?
I’m sorry, but I thought I made it clear above. Let me try to be brief this time. Can one person hate another? Yes Is it right to do so? No, if it’s a hatred related to their physical self; like hating a person because they are ‘black’ or ‘french’ or ‘of Jewish decent’, but hating them because of who they choose to be, then of course. If someone chooses to be a mass murderer then yes, you hate him for his choices. We don’t care if he is an American or Muslim, where most serial killers are from, we only care about who the person is. Does that hatred remove them from the pale of mercy, good and fair behaviour? No, based on what i explained above. So if someone is an evil person, I would hate him for his evil, but that doesn’t mean I won’t try to stop him from that
Okay so i'm going to push a little, candidly: would you say it is morally ok to hate someone because of his ideas. Not his deeds not his unchoosable parts but his ideas?
Yes, it is. Your line of questioning is vapid and exhausting.
Wasn't asking u bud, i've hijacked your convo lol We're 2 intellectuals doing some thinking Lets still be frens k byeeee
The problem we have here is that in Islam we are supposed to love and hate for the sake of Allaah. Yes, you can love and hate some for personal selfish reasons but if they are outside the guidance and guild lines of Islam, then it’s not necessarily sanctioned. A few examples to clarify. 1) Some ideas are evil, and repugnant, but if I hated someone specifically just for that you may assume that this would justify all sorts of mistreatment. That’s normal for ‘hatred’. But in Islam we’re ordered to guide such people to righteousness and good behaviour, deed and beliefs. Why would you put effort to help someone if you “hated them”? That shows that it’s not the type of ‘hate’ you’re thinking of. 2) Likewise, you love someone, but only to a point whereby you don’t commit sinful deeds or mistreatment of anyone because of it. So if I was madly in love with a woman and she told me I must rob someone so i could get her some expensive ring, that love would be wrong and forbidden if it leads me to such a sin. Likewise, if would be prohibited for me to aid any fellow Muslims to oppress a non-Muslims, and in fact I am obligated to stop him. So although my aligences is towards my fellow Muslim, I cannot let that ‘love’ lead to sin. That’s not really love. The prophet Muhammad said: “Help your brother, whether he is oppressed or the oppressor”. His disciples said “we understand how to help him if he is oppressed, but how can we help him if he is an oppressor?” And said “stop him from his oppression”. So when I say “hate someone for their idea” it’s not the same type of hatred a racist has for ‘the other’ for example. So bringing it back to the original conversation. If I met someone who had no issue in the murder of innocent civilians , or they agreed with the use of nuclear bombs on civilians, I very easily hate that person for having it in them to accept such barbarism, but if I was able to get them to change their views through dialogue, and they changed, I would have zero reason to hate him further and in fact I would love him for his sincerity and goodness.
total rabbit trail but this is something i struggle with: do we hate hitler or an idea that we call hitler? Like, i never met hitler and he's been dead a long time.
Hitler was an evil man, if what they say that he did was true, and he no doubt had evil beliefs for sure. But if he left that, repented, rectified his situations than the door to forgiveness is always there. Unless you’re dead, and then it’s too late. But best believe, there wasn’t much of a difference between him and the likes of Winston Churchill. They all shared similar evil ideas. It’s just that Hitler lost the war.