It's both people and the algorithm. The dark side can get you more views.

It depends on whether you optimize for 6-12 month numbers or want to build a high-integrity 3-5 year+ brand.

The light side can keep your more in contact with a high caliber group of people that want to interview with you regularly, and you are more respected for business in general. In other words, I interview with my friend Walker despite lower views as a newer podcast because... I fucking like Walker online and in person. I just want to hang out with a friend and chat and the numbers don't matter and I know his thumbnails will be legit. Vibes first.

As podcasts broaden out, there's a middle ground of integrity and good marketing, but it has trade-offs. And if you go the more aggressive route regularly, it's nice to have both options, like a full interview and a conservative clip, so that if an interviewee like me wants to share it, they have the less-aggressive version to share. Like the main interview is more plain and optimistic, while other clips go for the algo.

With my almost 700k followers, whether I share one of my many primary interviews on Twitter or not is frankly based on how it turned out and whether the title and picture are embarrassing or not. I share based on a combo of 1) how much I personally like the interviewer, and 2) title/content/image, etc. I don't share a lot of high-volume Youtube clips from hosts I semi-like, simply because I find their titles and thumbnail embarrassing. They aim for the YouTube clicks so I'm embarrassed to share their title on Twitter.

But the key thing from your end, always, is to be known as a high-integrity interviewer. That's what I come back to four years in a row now for my favorites like Jack Farley. And you're in that category now.

Jack Farley is currently a top macro interviewer. His images and titles are sometimes aggressive, but at the end of the day he's known for pushing hard and being a great interviewer. And yet he doesn't get bitcoin yet. David Lin formerly of Kitco is similar. Natalie Brunelle is an amazing bitcoin interviewer. She's among my top five given how much preparation she does like David Lin does.

McCormack is similar for the bitcoin space. He's charismatic, popular, but will aggressively question things. And if you come at him like Grayscale, he'll rekt you.

For longevity, the interviewer needs a brand, imo. Something they stand for. Not just YouTube image memes. But serious character, which Walker has.
 

 Lyn, I truly appreciate this thoughtful and detailed response. 

Just so you know, the clickbait-y thumbnail is not my MO and I honestly felt a bit dirty doing it (because I know this is often done with your interviews), but I also enjoy experiments (and figured you would let a clickbait-y thumbnail slide for the sake of experimentation 😉).

I would also like you to know that I fucking like you, too, online and in person. 

I feel very privileged and grateful that Carla and I started making silly videos about Bitcoin while holed up in Bumblefuck Nowhere Wisconsin and somehow found ourselves hanging out with some of the most brilliant and inspiring people we’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing, and now I can reach out to those brilliant and inspiring people (such as yourself) and ask to have a conversation on Another Fucking Bitcoin Podcast as friends. It’s honestly beautiful and surreal (while also being extremely real).

I also just want to say that I couldn’t agree more on Peter and Natalie — they are truly the best in the business and I have a massive amount of respect for them. Not only are they masters of their craft, but they are wonderful and authentic human beings. 

The older I get, the more I realize is that the best thing you can be is yourself. After all, why would you want to be anyone else?

 “Those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind.” 🫂