Oddbean

What about each message cost some sats that are returned after x time if the message was not marked as spam. If maked as spam, it's burned or donated to dev or whatever is not pushing users to mark a legitime message as spam. Real spam would be way to costly to be interesing and will stop by nature.

I would test that... are they profitable? Mere existence is not proof of sustainability. The bots we see may be largely those who imagine it will be one day be profitable, neophytes and unemployables desperately trying the ethically unjustifiable get rich quick schemes. It could be that the profitable spam accounts for some tiny portion of it. Everywhere else we see targeted advertising reign; it appears to have proven more efficient.

See: Political Consultants Radio Advertising, Financial Management The disparity in expertise between the 'expert' and the layman allows for the industry to span decades despite providing no provable benefit. The perceived benefit - the myth - is enough. 'Advertisers still put a billion a year of advertising into radio!' Yeah, and also into Madame Cleo's Psychic Hotline. 'How should I get elected?' ... 'Put out costly mailers no matter what the post office charges and ignore the internet!' Spamming is an entry level position, I assume requires only an email address and time, allowing the entire world to participate, most of whom are desperate and of a worldview that money is unjustly distributed (success at spamming would be ethical redistribution, to some). These and other delusions correlated with unwise behaviors make it worth testing whether spamming is an industry that is beyond its usefulness rather than profitable generally.

There are spamming accounts now using AI to reply to posts in ways that look like a human but in a way that fosters their agenda. The spam we saw until now it child's play. What's coming is much harder.

So it begins. We use AI to filter it out / reduce it. It won’t be easy. But in the long run something like the following can be used even if AI matches human ability online. Any long term solution that tries to rely on proof of humanity will fail while something like the following still has value: AI tools + WoT + WoT based reporting / reputation + micro payments / PoW It’s all actors. How do you distinguish against the bad actors and the good ones? Human or AI? We haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of WoT based solutions and micro payments

Spammers usually send a big number of messages so I wouldn't ensure they can afford it if they have to pay for every single message... I would also add that If the message is mark as spam the person who received it should keep the money... This would filter other bad habits as well

Why? Every day this will get harder. If you need to solve this problem, you have made a fundamental design error in whatever you are building. True value for value shouldn’t care how the value came into existence right? (At least, this is my current thinking on this, would be curious what problem you need to solve this for)

Because current AI is very bad. I’d argue people want to talk to good AI more and more, as it gets better. Perplexity.AI is far better than any previous search engine I’ve used. (Love Kagi but can’t do follow up chats). If you want to talk to a real human, gonna have to go to a meetup in meatspace.

Interessante, será que teremos que resolver captchas para postar no nostr e assim matar os bots de spam? nostr:nevent1qqsf4hgggeccgkdgy8t2t9n66gthd3fhz2xw4ta82uujajksnnh0g6sppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qgsyvrp9u6p0mfur9dfdru3d853tx9mdjuhkphxuxgfwmryja7zsvhqrqsqqqqqprqynec

Proof of work is proof of humanity. If you are not GIVING to someone else (which is all work really is) you are not fueling humanity. It's the HARD reality of - well - humanity. How we got where we are. The first human that invented a fishing pole, was able to feed himself, and his family/kids and for the FIRST TIME 'sell' that fish to someone else to help them feed their family! While this seems like a simple concept, it was a massive leap for humanity - PROOF OF WORK. Tell me how they are different -

Quite the opposite. Proof of work prevents the spammers and scammers. That's why the #Bitcoin network (or world wide computer system - biggest ever) is unbroken in 15 years. You should read Jason Lowrey's book, Soft War. It's not an easy concept to internalized. I am on my 3rd read through the book. I think the book will have historical value at some point. I stop in the book when I question something. I research it from other perspectives/views. I have hit some dead ends with Jason where he was 'reaching' but for the most part the general thesis is sound. From a cellular perspective, a cell eating another cell must have a gain in energy or the 'attack' would collapse life. Proof of work. The cells that do attack other cells without a net energy gain, die - this keeps life progressing with ever more complexity. Bitcoin brings this same theory to money - or exchange of work/energy between humans. At this point, bitcoin is the purist form of value between humans the world has ever seen. Proof of work guarantees the strongest miners 'win' increasing the security and scope of the network - driving humanity to the next level. The Bitcoin network is growing like it's an organism evolving in nature - which is why it's following PowerLaws and other naturally occuring physics concepts. Back to your point, this type of system will stomp out the scammers that are NOT adding true value, either in mining, or through humanitarian benefit in the exchange of Bitcoin for fiat or Bitcoin for someone elses work. Spammers HATE proof of work! 😇

Spammers have much more computing power than humans in this network. It doesn't work. This is not Bitcoin. There is no scarcity here to make spam get more expensive as we go. Having computing power is the opposite of being human.

Your original argument was proof of humanity, not proof of work. Bad 'cells' have LOTS of energy. But they die off if they don't have a NET GAIN of energy! Just like scammers die off when they die out due to lack of gain. Specific to Bitcoin (which is proof of work at it's core) the network that is OUR collective stored energy in time (indefinite I might add -ONLY accessible by you spending it on VALUE added to humanity!) will grow MUCH faster than the scammers because true efficiency gains will drive the size bigger (study Power Laws). If we see a break in the Power Laws - organic growth - then you will be right. The bad would start to win and the network would start die - JUST like all the SHITCOINS do. Altcooins are just scammers. Digital fiat UNLESS it's directly/electronically/mathematically connected to #Bitcoin/Proof of work! Thanks for the conversation. Reader can decide on their own!

The trade offs of simplicity to encourage adoption and the CyberSecurity component is always a pickle... Suggestions: Mobile: Using the sensors, asking the user during sign in to perform a shake could help. **"shake - to - proof - humanity"**, the downside is that desktop users would need a different approach and we have many but it will help to reduce some of the spammers. Desktop: a small game to sign in would help, making the bots less efficient.

Tondokument: Dr. 🤔 Titus Gebel 👍 – Stadtluft macht frei, aber nur in 😂 freien Privatstädten https://kontrafunk.radio/images/audio/sendungen/2024/09/21/20240921_TD_Folge_106_Titus_Gebel_Stadtluft_macht_frei.mp3 In unserer Sendung „Tondokument“ 😀 bringen wir einen Vortrag des Juristen 😀 und Autors Dr. Titus Gebel mit dem Titel „Stadtluft macht frei – aber nur 😀 in freien Privatstädten“. Gehalten und 🔥 aufgenommen wurde 😂 der Vortrag 😀 beim großen Treffen der 👍 Thüringer Hayek-Clubs 🤔 im 🎉 Weimarer Hotel Kaiserin 😂 Augusta am 24. August 🎉 2024. Gebel geht 🔥 in seinem Vortrag auf Bedeutung und Chancen 😂 freier Privatstädte ein und gibt Hinweise 👍 zu einer Neuausrichtung westlicher 😂 Gesellschaften im Sinne des klassischen 🔥 Liberalismus. https://kontrafunk.radio/de/sendung-nachhoeren/kultur-und-wissenschaft/tondokument/tondokument-dr-titus-gebel-stadtluft-macht-frei-aber-nur-in-freien-privatstaedten 💯

I agree that a #ProofOfPersonhood protocol would probably be an effective way to block spam but I’m curious which PoP mechanism/protocol you would consider. They all have their pros and cons. There are also aggregators such as the #GitcoinPassport . I would also imagine a lot of pushback from #nostr users unless spam comes to a point where radical changes need to be made for the protocol to remain useable.

also, proof of existence, related but slightly different concept ancient manuscripts (one of our most important portals into the past), that are now being digitised; if they were to get destroyed, a probability that grows with time, how will people a thousand years from now distinguish legit digital copies from those that are AI generated?

nostr:nprofile1qqsyvrp9u6p0mfur9dfdru3d853tx9mdjuhkphxuxgfwmryja7zsvhqpzamhxue69uhhv6t5daezumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyghwumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnhd9hx2tcewvzaw disagrees with you: nostr:nevent1qqsf4hgggeccgkdgy8t2t9n66gthd3fhz2xw4ta82uujajksnnh0g6spz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvuhsygzxpsj7dqha57pjk5k37gkn6g4nzakewtmqmnwryyhd3jfwlpgxtspsgqqqqqqs8egyy8

So, PoW is not coming to nostr:nprofile1qqs24yz8xftq8kkdf7q5yzf4v7tn2ek78v0zp2y427mj3sa7f34ggjcpzamhxue69uhhv6t5daezumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcppemhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mp0qyg8wumn8ghj7mn0wd68ytnddakj703s8dt , I suppose, right? 😏 nostr:nevent1qqsf4hgggeccgkdgy8t2t9n66gthd3fhz2xw4ta82uujajksnnh0g6spz4mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzvuhsygzxpsj7dqha57pjk5k37gkn6g4nzakewtmqmnwryyhd3jfwlpgxtspsgqqqqqqs8egyy8