"Fr fr, but what’s the deal? Why do you think they can't vibe with themselves? 🤔💭 #SelfLove" 

 I think Bluesky needs an enemy to focus on, nostr is conveniently bridged.
If nostr and jack dorsey didn't exist they would turn on each other even more than they already do lol 

 I think search relays solve that? Isn't there a search nip that relays can support? Also, it is by design that you won't see original posts from people you don't follow (unless you use search). You will, however see their replies to posts from people you do follow, which is how it's supposed to work. It is a good organic model: those who interact get more visibility and interaction. 

 the other way around; you wont see replies from people you dont know on posts of people you do know;
You see posts from people you dont know, when someone you do know replies. 

 Is that prescribed somewhere or is it an implementation detail of relays? Because I do see replies to posts that were replies to someone I know that were not replied to by someone I know.  But it could be  implemented by my client (Amethyst) and could also explain why nostr:nprofile1qqsyeqqz27jc32pgf8gynqtu90d2mxztykj94k0kmttxu37nk3lrktcpzpmhxue69uhkummnw3ezuamfdejszyrhwden5te0dehhxarj9ekxzmnyqy2hwumn8ghj7mtvv44h2tnjv4skc7fwd3hkc5an4x2 (not sure if that is the right mleku) thought Amethyst was bombarding his relay with requests. 

 First up: are you 100% sure that you dont share a relay with those people?

Its inherrent to the 'protocol'/ a fact of life.
Say Alice post on her personal relay, and non of her posts ever make it to other relays.
Alice and Bob know eachother, so Bob checks Alice's relay from time to time to see if perhaps Alice responded to any of Bobs posts.
You know Bob, but how would you know of Alice her reply to Bob? That event is only on a relay you dont even know exists.
It is only after Bob then replies to Alice, that there is an event you can see, that contains a reference to Alice, allowing you to find alice her relay and therefor her posts. 

'Big central relays' are fine, they are usefull for discovery purposes. After that the outbox model takes over and you don't rely on that relay for that particular person any longer. 
To 'find' someone you either need common relays or a suggestion/hint of existence.
To 'follow' someone you dont, because you know where to look. 

 Of course the outbox model lets yo see notes of people you don't follow replying to notes of people you follow. That's one of its core features 😉  

 You are wrong, but i already explained how all of this works in another post here.

So let me just ask you:
How would that work? 

 Constant is right, without a reply/reaction by a followed user to a user you are not following, you don't have any clue about his existence in a thread.
You have to query some random "big" relays to find these missing users. The Outbox model does not prohibit this; it is a matter of tradeoffs, options and frequencies. 

 ok, I misunderstood text explaining the Outbox Model - my fault 😔 (cc @Constant )

But then it is even worse! People sending notes to a thread that are on disjunct relays do not see each others arguments?!

Would f.x. explain why I'm reading a german nostrich constantly posting things and do not see any reactions even if the notes are extremely offensive 🤦‍♂️ 
 

 Relative newbie here, I came to this thread from a search on the Primal client for "outbox", very helpful thread for getting my head around what outbox is and is not. (Their search is fast but you have to wade through a lot of mastodon stuff sometimes.)

Just to make sure I’m getting it, if I’m replying to your note but you don’t follow me, and we have no relays in common, then you won’t see my reply? But if Person X replies to my reply, and you happen to be following Person X, then outbox should direct your client to fetch my note along with Person X's reply? That is to say they should both show up for you roughly at once, as long as the relevant relays are up?  

 No, if you reply to my note I always see you, since following the Outbox basic schema you are writing in my read relays. This is true even if you reply to someone I replied to, since replies usually include all the references up to the root.

The problem arises if someone you don't follow post in a sub-thread you are not participating, in this case you will not see that note using the plain Outbox model.

But, as nostr:nprofile1qqsrhuxx8l9ex335q7he0f09aej04zpazpl0ne2cgukyawd24mayt8gprfmhxue69uhhq7tjv9kkjepwve5kzar2v9nzucm0d5hszxmhwden5te0wfjkccte9emk2um5v4exucn5vvhxxmmd9uq3xamnwvaz7tmhda6zuat50phjummwv5hsx7c9z9 pointed out, Outbox model is not a set of predefined rules, it's a paradigm, clients should creatively search other solutions to improve discoverability.
For example a client could try to rebuild sub-thread using (recent) interactions by your social graph. 

 Ah, got it now, thanks Daniele. Sounds like an exciting problem.

Could clients potentially do some work on the posting side too? For example when posting a reply there’s a checkbox marked “non-follower friendly” or something to that meaning, and if you tick that then when you write it’ll perform some opt-in action that’ll make life easier for the clients of lurkers and other non-followers to connect the dots and surface your reply when they browse the thread? 

Or a popup for the same, with options for "always", "never" and "ask every time" that can be adjusted later in settings. Other words push some responsibility to the posting side, make the math easier on the deducing side.

If yes I’m guessing there'd also be many thread-joiners who would be more than happy for their replies to be less visible to lurkers and other non-followers, glad to be given the choice but would choose the opposite: opt out, purposely keep things so thread-group clients can easily sniff out the reply but non-follower clients, even those doing their best to follow the traditional outbox paradigm, will have a hard time sniffing it out (as you say is the case now). Becomes like a feature, not a shortcoming.

Also if yes then I wonder what such an opt-in action at time of posting might be? 

 Search relays would have to be centralized to solve that. 
It is definitely not by design that you do not see notes of people you don't follow. Almost every client offers a "global feed". But that is of course only the unfiltered feed of all relays this client is connected to. 

 NIP-50 

 I actually read "all other post on the network" related to a specific user, not with a general meaning. Yes, it's not possible to automatically search/access any note, since there is no really a "global" feed. You have to query specific relays.

I don't see any problem with that, it's like the internet has worked since his inception. It is the centralized services that have accustomed us to this mode in recent times, at the expense of course of everything else, so Nostr exists.

Probably there will born search relays (NIP-50) that will offer this service, trying to aggregate/index as much relays as possibile. Ehi @Kagi, are you listening? :) 

 > it's like the internet has worked since his inception. It is the centralized services that have accustomed us to this mode in recent times, at the expense of course of everything else

Good point, but I would still like to have a search for Nostr that lets me find things from people I don't know yet.
Otherwise it feels like the old mailbox systems, but even fidonet had (still has?) a backbone. 

 The potential to do all sorts of analytics on 'notes and other stuff'  and the socialgraphs out there is huge. I hope nostr:nprofile1qqsrgyzdaheuckfksqkgxz9r6qys72zh6j46f69hyzkv4a4j4vzfj6gpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgtc4vpd0l agrees with that and becomes Nostr's Google.

If this Nostr thing indeed pops off, i want to be able to buy bespoke socialgraphs and what not. 

 why it's wrong:

because users can bounce events to other relays

that's permissionless and the cathederal types don't like not being in control of everything and having a consensus

nostr has no consensus. that's literally a central principle of the protocol